it usually starts once people have seen the film but now you've started the thread you might've gotten the ball rolling early i said what i had to say about reloaded i wont have anything to say about revolutions til i finally see it.

Sure, and that's perfectly understandable, but given that this is notionally an SF site, this film is the finale of a very successful (and spectacular) SF series, and there's plenty of grounds for speculation I'm just suprised that it's not happening; certainly my query is more meta than matrix -- I'm not so much looking for a discussion as wondering why there isn't one; if Matrix 3 can't drum up pre-release speculation on T21 what can, and why?

Blimey, someone wants to discuss Sci-Fi!

*dies of shock*

From what I've seen bandied about there are two main theories:

1) The Matrix-in-a-Matrix theory.
2) Neo now has some fabby 6th(7th?) sense which allows him control over the machines via some mental link through The Matrix.

Either are equally possible (if you skip over some of the technicalities).

The Matrix-in-a-Matrix theory is probably the one which explains everything the easiest, and would lead up to a nice non-hollywood ending to boot.
Okay, two Matrix mainframes, one in which the vast majority of folks exist bimbling about with their normal lives without a care in the world. The second is there to catch the small but vocal percentage for which the Matrix programming doesn't take hold properly, and give them the illusion of freedom thus making them happy because they think they've escaped.
This theory would explain how Neo can now control (well, turn them off along with himself in the process.. doh!) the machines as they are just a second layer of the Matrix in which Neo still has "power".
Also, this would explain how one of the Smith clones could download himself into Boon (it was Boon wasn't it?), as it would just be a matter of over-writing the program.

Cue lots of fighting and a Planet of the Apes style "Noooooooooooo" if and when they realise this towards the end of the film, and Neo selecting his band of merry men and a few love-bunnies to while away the rest of his existence with in the next version of Zion..

OOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooorrrrr...

Everyone we care about really have escaped the Matrix, Neo how weirdy powers over which the technicalities are nicely glossed over along with Smith down/uploading himself into a human being, and various other sillyness.
Cue lots of long fights, Neo/Keanu-isms, ("Woah, I know Kung-Fu", "Hmm.. Upgrades", etc etc), and a nice Hollywood style "We won!" type ending.

Oooooooooooooooooooooooorr

A possible combination of the above?

"There is no sequel"

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by MonSTeR
"There is no sequel"

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LOL, "There is no Matrix, this has all been a figment of your imagination.. Ha!"

The guy's name is Bane, close enough

I'd heard that Zion was another Matrix, the people in Zion are in fact machines... loads of weird stuff that I didn't understand enough to talk about.

Whatever happens, it's going to look great

I've just been to see it...

Very cool!!

Saw it last night. Was extremly disappointed. Came out the cinema with a 'is that it feeling'.

as a bbc reviewer puts it, I cam out of the cinema feeling like the wazowski brothers had just mugged me.

Its a real shame, so much hype and very little delivered.

*remembers the post movie discussion*

Definitely not of the "happy bunny" kind

Such a shame. Reloaded was great (well, I liked it anyway) but this was.... how can I put it?... Crap.

<edited to add>
The BBC website review is HERE

(Edited by Kate 06/11/2003 09:11)

** I know the topic mentions this, but there will be spoilers ahead **

Well, I loved it. Was unbelievably disappointed with Reloaded after waiting so long for it as it had too many confusing plot lines that had no cohesion to bring the movie together. Went to see Revolutions last night and came out extremely satisfied that the lose ends I was worried about had all been tied up... and with a nicely 'non standard Hollywood' ending.

I loved all the visual nods to the first two films (made me feel right at home) and the inclusion of a lot more Niobe and Zee, so even the fact that no attempt was made by Morpheus, Trinity or Seraph to dodge bullets in the replica lobby scene couldn't dampen my enthusiasm. The effects were fab, story excellent, and great performances were given by all (even Keanu tried v hard!). Even that kid in Zion wasn't as annoying as he was in Reloaded.

If I could change one thing about Revolutions it would be the ending. I'd have finished after The Atchitect speaks to The Oracle (before Seraph and the kid turn up and it goes a tad mushy), but that was only a minor irritation. All in all, I loved every minute of the film and can't wait to see it again.

ps. The first one's still the best though

(Edited by Lori 06/11/2003 15:01)

heavy spoiler alert

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I dunno. I mean, yes it was a non-Hollywood-happy-ending ending, but I still feel that it didn't end at all really. Too many things had to be just accepted. It was never revealed how come Neo had more power than the previous "chosen ones", and no explaination was given as to why the machines would treat his body with such reverence, or why they keep to their bargain. After all, once Smith was eradicated, there was no further threat to the Source. With Neo gone, what motive would it have to stick to the deal. The purpose of the program as defined in Reloaded was to allow Zion to build to a set level, activate "The One", combine the One with the source, destroy Zion and rebuild it again. If it's going back to the beginning of the loop, they should have said so. If not, why not?

My personal opinion was that some of the fan theories about the end were far better. The "Matrix within a Matrix" theory would explain why Neo could control the machines (the evironment still being false), because otherwise... how?
Add to that the heavy-handed religious/spiritual references. Ick!
I thought the action sequences were confusing - half the time I couldn't make out what was happening as it seemed to be too fast and too dark. A large part of the Zion battle sequence felt like filler.

Trinity's death effectively took away any conflict Neo may have had about self-sacrifice, making it less of one. What else did he have to live for?

He told Smith that he fought because he chose to, but it was clear that there was no choice. If he didn't fight, Zion would be destroyed and Smith would take over the Matrix and spread to the Source (so they said - although no proof was given of how this would be achieved. Had he assimilated the Train Man and/or The Marovingian?) which would probably kill any humans still "plugged in".

I suppose the ending was possibly implied by the title. Revolution. Full circle. Back to the beginning. Also referenced by the sunrise. I can see no other reason for that sequence.


I think the story could have been told in two movies and that the third was a lot of prevarication and waffle to fill 2+ hours.

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(Edited by Kate 10/11/2003 21:14)

I really really hated this film, and i can't express how angry i felt at the end of it.

SPOILERS.........

to me this film was (as one of my friends actually pointed out to me through my anger) a service-able action film. However, this is all it was, it was packed to the brim with clichés and stuff which just seemed far too much like they were stolen from other films - when the... i can't remember her name, morpheus' love interest... flew the hovercraft down that tunnel that no-one else has ever flown down before and no-one could possibly do it, did it remind anyone of the death star trench run in star wars?

Why do the machines have a built up city? They have nothing that they need to live on, there's no real reason for living space and things!

Right, the other bits are just nit picking, but my main major gripe with it was that it's advertised as "every beginning has an ending". There is no ending to this film, there is no winner, no loser, just a truce, a truce that keeps the human race still enslaved, and the humans that do live in zion worse off than they were before because now their city is half destroyed.

Also, the film ends on 3 characters, 2 weren't even in the first film, and one was, but was never really a major character anyway.

As i mentioned, if i had no interest in the story, i'd prolly have been able to enjoy it, simply because of the action sequences, but i hadn't gone for action, i had gone for the furtherence of a story, and i worry that the story has not beenm completed so it can be finished in another crappy video game or set of animatrix things.

Just read a reader review on the BBC site that i felt i had to quote:

"You mean it doesn't end with Keanu Reeves waking up, turning to Alex Winter and saying "Bill, I just had a most excellent dream!"? Shame."
Simon,UK

(Edited by Wiggy 06/11/2003 21:55)

Hmm. Only just got back from seeing it...initial reaction is 'good but not great' - I had my expectations set *way* high (too high) and so it was inevitable I was gonna be disappointed. That said for the most part I enjoyed it, they remember to actually allow for some emotional investment in the characters on the audiences' part this time, and even though at points the dialogue was cheesier than a large chunk of stilton at other times it was kept nice and tight, and was pretty effective.

*spoiler space, just in case* <--ooh, a rhyme






Just to attempt to tackle a couple of the points raised (this is just what I'm thinking I don't think this is a definitive answer at all)

What's to say Neo had more power than the previous Ones? For all we know they had the same...but as was (sort of) implied at the end of Reloaded, they never made the choice that Neo did when he came to the Architect, presumably because they did not have a Trinity, so they never found out what they were capable of. I'm assuming the taking of Neo's body at the end was something to do with once again disseminating the code at the core of the One, but that's a pure guess.

I'm assuming the deliberately open ending is to tease a possible future film (since Reloaded and Revolutions were filmed as one film they *might* be extremely cheeky and make another one as the 'proper' final part of the Trilogy) since the Oracle said something along the lines of the peace would last as long as it could...but certainly not forever.

And again, I don't think it is going back to the beginning of the loop. Neo broke the loop at the end of Reloaded when he went back to save Trinity instead of restarting everything, and the Oracle made one or two references to things changing, i.e. they are not the same as they were before.

I really don't know about the controlling machines bit Maybe he's part machine? *shrug*

The final Smith fight I was disappointed with, it seemed to be too much flash and not enough fist, if that makes sense

BTW Wiggy the machine city was explained in the Animatrix


*End spoilers*

hey maybe they'll wait 20 years and make another trilogy

Hi, not a Matrix fan so disregard my comments if you like, but I was dragged along to both of the sequels by my over exited mate (OK, I didn't put up much of a fight but I needed a basis for winding him up).

I didn't like Reloaded until I realised about half way into Revolutions that both sequals are just one really big, over blown action movie. Then I started to enjoy this film.
No plot points here, mainly because I can't be bothered collecting them into a spoiler block, but...

There's a lot of cool stuff on show, some of it's really cheesy though that's not neccessarily a bad thing.
There's some boring, over complicated, talky bits to tie in with the first film. I'm not against talky bits, some of my favourie films are 90 min talky bits, but the bulk of the matrix's seems forced.

Then there's the sodding great chunks that were thrown in to blow out the film's scope. What I like to think of as the Devlin/Emerick sequences. That is to say enerything pertaining to Zion and the extra characters brought in for emotional connection to the war in the 'real' world. Only Devlin and Emerick would've done a better job with the characterisation.

Basically, I left Warner Village feeling a little smug, probably a little more likely to watch the DVDs and with a real longing to watch the original Star Wars trilogy again because it did the same thing in an infinately more enjoyable way. (and had a Frank Oz Muppet.)

Highlights:

* we went before 6pm so it only cost £3.75
* going early meant we could do other stuff later as well
* the music was good
* there were some nice effects
* persephone's cleavage
* the trailer for the Last Samurai was excellent

ummm... anything else? Oh yeah --

* going early meant the cinema was mostly empty

Well personally, i thought it was fantastic and loads of you are looking too deep. just accept it and enjoy it for what it was. who cares about the other stuff... it was a fantastic film and i understood it. bonus