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by Incandenza
Does the rise of right wing politics worry you?

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No

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by Incandenza
Does the rise

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Right wing? No. i have been affectionatly called "to the right of atilla the hun" so how could i be against that?

Fashists? YES, it bothers me a lot.

I believe in personal responsibility, they are my right wing views.

I dont believe in raceism or any other prejudice since everyone should be judged on their merrits, not their colour, age, sex or anything else.

Fashists rank with communists in my book

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by Cat

Fashists rank with communists in my book

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You are opening a whoooooooole other can of worms there...

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by Ethan

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It is reassuring to know that any typos I miss will be spotted and quoted by you.

Ta.

Right-wing in general doesn't bother me that much but the far extremes of either wing is a worry, I guess most of the problem is that the very low voter turn-out makes the potential problem seem more obvious.

From what I've gathered of the French electoral system, this shows one of the dangers of "Tactical Voting" where many folks voted against the encumbant president in protest of his policies or refusing to vote at all, only to allow Le Pen to progress to the final round of voting.

If Le Pen is democratically elected, the French have no-one to blame but themselves. In truth, even though I hate to admit it, there are times when I would agree with some of his policies and occasionally feel a sense of nationalism and wanting Britain to look after the British first and foremost at the expense of the "would-be" British or the rest of the world.

But equally there are times when I think he's completely lost it.

And besides if he won, he'd be President, not Chancellor

Hmm..there are times when I feel a lot of sympathy for Le Pen's politics, and have this strange urge to beat the tar out of Moroccans. Sorry, I mean the "would-be" French. Weird.

I think there are a lot of interesting things about this result, which certain people are representing as a death-blow to the Fifth Republic. One obvious one is that, although the first round is generally seen as an opportunity to protest, the volume of protest for the far right is *reeee-eeeely* scary. Even if Le Pen is crushed in the next round, which he should be as the "Oh my God" reaction kicks in, Chirac's election will ultimately be totally compromised. In effect, the failure of the left to organise successfully has poisoned the well of presidential candidacy.

OTOH, Chirac deserves nothing less - by following Le Pen's lead on crime and punishment, which then dragged Jospin in, he made the fatal error of bringing Le Pen and his "issues" (in both senses) into some semblance of the mainstream politicawhole, I hope that this is a blip, and that the sheer absurdity of the situation ensures that it doesn't happen again. And I feel terribly sorry for Jospin - decent but dull, he scores points both for principle and for being on the saliva tree with Jacques Derrida.

Oh, one interesting little sidebar. Who was the first to congratulate Le Pen? Fun-loving Russian Nationalist Vladimir Zhirinovsky. Niiiice.


(Edited by Tannhauser 23/04/2002 15:57)

{Edited for Language}

Okay, let's keep this friendly and keep an eye on the language please

(Edited by Stoo 23/04/2002 17:23)

Sorry, didn't meant to attack anyone (did it come across that way?). I just don't think that communism (in theory at least, not always is practice) is anywhere near as bad as facism and is a completely different thing. But anyway, that has nothing to do with the topic.

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by Incandenza
Does the rise of right wing politics worry you?

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No it certainly doesn't bother me, go the right

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by MonSTer
this shows one of the dangers of "Tactical Voting" where many folks voted against the encumbant president in protest of his policies or refusing to vote at all

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Ah, we've just today disgusted the fall of Sir Robert Peel in history, who fell for that very reason. He tried to pass a bill of coercian against the Irish (yeah, beat them Irish) but his own party, the Whigs and every other person who ever held a grudge voted against it, an act of vengence. So Peel resigned after this show of no-confidence. Sorry about the tangent, but I felt it was an interesting subject.

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by MonSTer
I would agree with some of his policies and occasionally feel a sense of nationalism and wanting Britain to look after the British first and foremost at the expense of the "would-be" British or the rest of the world.

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Amen to that, I totally agree. I know it's not "PC" to say it, but our government should look out for Britain, not other countries, they have their own governments, let them deal with it.

Still, Le Pen's rise is definatly not a Sound of Music moment.

(Edited by KieranFrost 23/04/2002 18:10)

Whilst I certainly dont agree with everything Mr Le Pen says, I can honestly see why these sort of partys are on the rise right or wrong. And however right wing a party is they still deserve their rights to try to be elected as the others.

The far right come and go. Fortunately it's been a while since they have had any real power, and I don't believe there is reason to think we are on the brink of their return. The situation in the North of England is a signifier of the current economic variance between north and south, with racism always being an easy answer to all your problems. No one else is attempting to address the imbalance, and the far right is making headway. But not enough to really take hold. All it will take is an improvement in our economy or the defeat of the Labour party at the next election to reduce the impact of the far right here.

As for Le Pen, the situation really shows up the failings of the French Presidential Election system, the power of personality in politics and the dangers of apathy. If you don't vote then the right will do it for you. Anyone who didn't vote at that election is as much to blame for Le Pen's success as anyone who voted for him. Still, I don't think this is leading to a Fascist President as the country is not in an economically unhealthy situation, nor in threat of a Communist revolution, historically the backgrounds to Fascist revolutions.

What is the real pity is that a truly honest and hardworking politician, Lionel Jospin, has not been given the chance to lead his country, and has been led to the conclusion that he should retire from politics completely. France has lost it's first truly great politician for a very long time, and ostensibly because he was seen as boring. That, I find, truly sickening.

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by KieranFrost
Amen to that, I totally agree. I know it's not "PC" to say it, but our government should look out for Britain, not other countries, they have their own governments, let them deal with it.

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But then many of these countries are in the position they are because of our countries historical actions...

And many of their governments are there because we put them there, not the people.

Typical French this, they vote the guy into a position of potentional power and have Strokes and roits to complaint about it.

They have no-one else to blame but themselves.

To be honest... I don't care that much, as I'm not French Thats gotta make me a bad person

Well, it's a thesis which worked wonders for mainland Europe, whose policy of failing to care too much about the slide of Germany to the far right in the 1930s thankfully averted what some doomsayers feared would develop into a world war.

Actually, having spoken to a couple of French friends, I think we're pretty safe from seeing Le Pen in the hot seat. The two round system is partly designed to cover for this.

He got his chance because a lot of people don't bother to vote in the first round (many were on holiday), and those that remained were split over several candidates. The second round pits the two top candidates in a straight head-to-head contest. A lot of the original no-shows will turn out to ensure he doesn't get in.

The real shame is that Jospin was just nudged into third place (and out of the contest). He's viewed as the best of the lot as far as I can make out, Chirac is alledgedly extremely corrupt. Jospin would almost certainly have won in the second round of the contest.

Agreed on all counts, Astronut. If the French don't want Jospin, I think we should ask to borrow him. Plus, his partner is the mother of Jacques Derrida's child. I can't believe how cool that is.

Do I worry about the rise of the extreme right? Oh Yeah!

Gotta admit though, loved his comment about being no more right wing than Tony Blair - that's not saying much at all if you've seen the 'Political Compass' thread.