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by JtB
The four you mentioned above were done by the pharohs, romans, macedonians and even before that but you dont hear them getting slatted for it.

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Yeah, but it's been a while since I saw a Pharaoh or a Roman. And modern Macedonia has little or nothing to do with the Macedonians of AlexanderÂ’s period, due to the invasions and cultural changes that have taken place in the millennia between then and now. We, on the other hand, have ostensibly the same type of government, and the same monarchy in power as was during the days of the British Empire. In fact, there are even some territories that we control as a direct result of the empire.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that the history of our country is all bad. What worries me is that when people talk about celebrating being English or British they usually refer to our actions as an Empire, and I find nothing there to celebrate. If you want to celebrate our contributions to science, literature, music or philosophy then I'm right there with you. I also think we should spend more time celebrating where we are now, than what has gone before; there's much more to be proud of today.

And I certainly have no opposition to the celebrations of St Patrick's, St Andrew's or St David's. But the English is a much more diverse group. What is meant by English usually refers to the Home Counties, those of the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms. Accents that vary pronunciations from the standard manner of that region are viewed as corruptions. Those of us from Yorkshire, Lancashire, the North-East, the Lakes, Cornwall, Devon, West Midlands, East Anglia, or anyone else I've forgotten have differing histories and cultures. While I realize that not everyone feels as I do (Yorkshire first, England second) the cultural experiences and identities of what it is to be English varies wildly. Much of what is considered English culture has nothing to do with the culture I identify with. Consequently I could not celebrate an England Day. However, as mentioned before, I would very much welcome a Britain Day.

Cool, my very own day

What im trying to say as a lot of other people seem to forget in our history we have done a lot of good but if we english are going to be blamed for everything wrong that has happened in the past then so should others.

Im not saying this is the way it should be but at the end of the day it wasnt me who brought this up.

JtB, I'm not saying we should shoulder the blame for all the world's ills, but we should accept the blame for those we are responsible for.

Like the invention of the concentration camp, playing a role in the raise of Fascism in Germany (Versailles treaty), slavery, genocide in North America, our involvement in the establishment of Israel, the fake national boundaries we invented in Africa and the Middle East. The Totalitarian governments we put in place in those fictional countries.

TheyÂ’re as good a place to start as any.

Yes our ancestors have done wrong but they have done a lot of right but since you intend to blame us for the entire of the worlds ills. I withdraw from this discussion as to not create any more bad feeling.

No bad feeling here, and I'm sorry you feel you have to stop posting on this issue. I thought we were having a healthy debate and apologize if I gave any other impression.

I still don't see where I said that we were to blame for all the world's ills or that we have never done anything right. In fact I can remember where I said the opposite. But there you go.

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by Watcher girl
(quotes)

I misread this as 'patron saint of Catatonia' and was quite confused... well, a little more so than normal anyway

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You know, this actually could be a case for Mulder and Scully.

Anyway, after our defeat to Real Madrid, I plan to celebrate St. Jordi's day as a bunch of skinheads outside the Roundhouse in Covent Garden did - by singing songs about Bobby Sands.

Quality.



(Edited by Tannhauser 24/04/2002 00:59)