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Ah, Jonathan Woodgate. Struck in the jaw with an irony bar.
Posted: 13:34 Apr 25 2002
Feelings towards violence.
I thought of this a week or so again then completly forgot about it until i saw Inc's thread on TV violence. (i seem to be doing a lot of Inc inspored off shoot threads at the Mo. I guess he inspires me 
)
Anyway, spoilers for ER, if you watch in C4, not E4 dont read.
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OK, so Abbi got beaten up by the wife-beater-neighbour and, i think it's safe to say, he's universally hated for his violence.
Then Luca beats the wife beater up and i found myself rooting him on.
This attitude to violence struck me as strange.
OK, so on the surface it's easy to understand. one was picking on an innocent and someone weaker than themselves. the other was giving him his "Just Deserts".
But i thought, it's all still violence. Why do i think it's acceptable for Luca to hit this man but not for the man to hit Abbi (or his wife for that matter).
Surly all violence is bad and it's wrong for me to root for Luca?
this isnt just on TV tho, although that show inspired the thought.
i had no problems with that footballer being beaten up recently 'cos i hated him for beting that asian chap up and getting away with it. I'm crap with names but i'm sure u all remember the case.
Comments?
(Edited by Cat 25/04/2002 13:06)
)Anyway, spoilers for ER, if you watch in C4, not E4 dont read.
1
2
3
4
5
OK, so Abbi got beaten up by the wife-beater-neighbour and, i think it's safe to say, he's universally hated for his violence.
Then Luca beats the wife beater up and i found myself rooting him on.
This attitude to violence struck me as strange.
OK, so on the surface it's easy to understand. one was picking on an innocent and someone weaker than themselves. the other was giving him his "Just Deserts".
But i thought, it's all still violence. Why do i think it's acceptable for Luca to hit this man but not for the man to hit Abbi (or his wife for that matter).
Surly all violence is bad and it's wrong for me to root for Luca?
this isnt just on TV tho, although that show inspired the thought.
i had no problems with that footballer being beaten up recently 'cos i hated him for beting that asian chap up and getting away with it. I'm crap with names but i'm sure u all remember the case.
Comments?
(Edited by Cat 25/04/2002 13:06)
7 Replies and 1445 Views in Total.
Posted: 13:34 Apr 25 2002 
I don't think there's anything wrong with your attitude. Most people have differing attitudes to what they see as justified and unjustified violence. - And rooting for the person carrying out the revenge beeting isn't the same as doing it yourself.
It does becomes a problem when people go that bit to far. Take for instance my 15 yr old brother David. He used to do a paper round after school. The shop he worked for took on another lad who just didn't like my brother. (This boy is 13) David was doing his paper round as normal which took him up to near this boy's house. The lad started calling David every name under the sun saying that he was a freak and a mistake and that his mother never wanted him. Now it strikes me that these are pretty evil things for a 13 yr old to come up with anyway but thats a different matter for disscussion.
Anyway, David - being a 15 yr old with a short temper and hormones and dyspraxia - went and pushed this lad over and carried on with his round. Admittedly David shouldn't have pushed the lad over and if someone had come round to talk to mum he would have been severely rollacked. What shouldn't have happened is that the boy's dad went to the paper shop to wait for David to get back. While he was waiting he was threatening the shop owner and saying that he was gonna use David like a football and if anyone tried to stop him he'd do the same to them.
When David got back to the shop the first thing he got was a whack in face of this bloke then repeated punching in the gut. He tried to get away outside and the guy started kicking him around the floor all the time shouting "This'll teach you not to pick on people younger than you" ?!?!?!
This was all caught on CCTV including all the threats but the police couldn't do anything about it because they could counter charge my brother for pushing the lad over in the first place.
So, this kid now thinks that its acceptable to beat the living daylights out of anyone younger than him because he just watched his dad do it and get away with it.
Things like this worry me far more than violence on TV because i think most kids are media literate enough to realise that TV violence isn't real. When it happens in the local community thats when it becomes a real and learned example.
It does becomes a problem when people go that bit to far. Take for instance my 15 yr old brother David. He used to do a paper round after school. The shop he worked for took on another lad who just didn't like my brother. (This boy is 13) David was doing his paper round as normal which took him up to near this boy's house. The lad started calling David every name under the sun saying that he was a freak and a mistake and that his mother never wanted him. Now it strikes me that these are pretty evil things for a 13 yr old to come up with anyway but thats a different matter for disscussion.
Anyway, David - being a 15 yr old with a short temper and hormones and dyspraxia - went and pushed this lad over and carried on with his round. Admittedly David shouldn't have pushed the lad over and if someone had come round to talk to mum he would have been severely rollacked. What shouldn't have happened is that the boy's dad went to the paper shop to wait for David to get back. While he was waiting he was threatening the shop owner and saying that he was gonna use David like a football and if anyone tried to stop him he'd do the same to them.
When David got back to the shop the first thing he got was a whack in face of this bloke then repeated punching in the gut. He tried to get away outside and the guy started kicking him around the floor all the time shouting "This'll teach you not to pick on people younger than you" ?!?!?!
This was all caught on CCTV including all the threats but the police couldn't do anything about it because they could counter charge my brother for pushing the lad over in the first place.
So, this kid now thinks that its acceptable to beat the living daylights out of anyone younger than him because he just watched his dad do it and get away with it.Things like this worry me far more than violence on TV because i think most kids are media literate enough to realise that TV violence isn't real. When it happens in the local community thats when it becomes a real and learned example.
Posted: 13:55 Apr 25 2002 How about a few less sentences that have the words 'Inc', 'violence', 'inspires' and 'shoot' in them for a start?
by Cat
I thought of this a week or so again then completly forgot about it until i saw Inc's thread on TV violence. (i seem to be doing a lot of Inc inspored off shoot threads at the Mo. I guess he inspires me
But i thought, it's all still violence. Why do i think it's acceptable for Luca to hit this man but not for the man to hit Abbi (or his wife for that matter).
Surly all violence is bad and it's wrong for me to root for Luca?
I mostly agree with you I think (which I believe is a first!) Popular entertainment consistently portrays violence as being an acceptable way for the hero to achieve his goals. That said, initiating violence is not the same as responding to violence and the former is far less morally justifiable.
I used to watch Ally McBeal (I know, I know) and at one point Rene broke some chaps neck by kicking him in the face, not a proportional response by any means.
Because she was a 'goody', she was successfully defended by John Cage despite the show's own moral stance on the storyline. Rene showed no sign of contriteness and the entire affair left a bad taste in the mouth. I stopped watching soon after.
Posted: 15:20 Apr 25 2002
Hmmm
on balance I think I prefer the thread about 'what makes you happy', but here's my two-penneth worth anyway:
I think Cat's original question about domestic violence (albeit portrayed through a media production), is a very interesting one. Does it make revenge acceptable? Should the beater be beaten - as I am always telling the girls - 2 wrongs do not add up to a right action (guess you can tell from this my thoughts on capital punishment!)
Domestic violence is usually about a power struggle, and the problems the perpetrator has with their own self esteem, and asserting themselves by subjugating possibly the only person in their life that they can achieve this with. Does it then make it right to treat this sad scrap of humanity to a good kicking? In my belief that person will get their just deserts eventually through universal law. And before anyone decries me for that stance - I have experienced this first and second hand.
As a peace loving, pacifist, girly tree hugger I abhor violence, I even find it uncomfortable to watch ER these days, and it has, in the past, been one of my favourite progs.
I also don't much care for a lot of cartoons on tv (from the other thread), and the girls are not allowed to watch the cartoons on a Saturday morning (yep I AM the mother from hell! I also make them eat vegetables
)
Sydney - that is truly awful, it must have been a terrible time for your brother, and your family, and I feel great sadness that evil, aggressive bullies such as this cannot be brought to justice by the law.
on balance I think I prefer the thread about 'what makes you happy', but here's my two-penneth worth anyway:
I think Cat's original question about domestic violence (albeit portrayed through a media production), is a very interesting one. Does it make revenge acceptable? Should the beater be beaten - as I am always telling the girls - 2 wrongs do not add up to a right action (guess you can tell from this my thoughts on capital punishment!)
Domestic violence is usually about a power struggle, and the problems the perpetrator has with their own self esteem, and asserting themselves by subjugating possibly the only person in their life that they can achieve this with. Does it then make it right to treat this sad scrap of humanity to a good kicking? In my belief that person will get their just deserts eventually through universal law. And before anyone decries me for that stance - I have experienced this first and second hand.
As a peace loving, pacifist, girly tree hugger I abhor violence, I even find it uncomfortable to watch ER these days, and it has, in the past, been one of my favourite progs.
I also don't much care for a lot of cartoons on tv (from the other thread), and the girls are not allowed to watch the cartoons on a Saturday morning (yep I AM the mother from hell! I also make them eat vegetables
)Sydney - that is truly awful, it must have been a terrible time for your brother, and your family, and I feel great sadness that evil, aggressive bullies such as this cannot be brought to justice by the law.
Posted: 15:50 Apr 25 2002 As far as I know he could have been "brought to justice", the police could well have moved ahead with charges, even a private prosecution could probably have been mounted.
by Green_Amber
Sydney - that is truly awful, it must have been a terrible time for your brother, and your family, and I feel great sadness that evil, aggressive bullies such as this cannot be brought to justice by the law.
The problem is Sydney's brother was unwilling to face the consequences of his actions in order to allow his assaillant to face his. I think we need Whistler in here to tell us how the British courts would have handled this if things had pressed ahead.
(Edited by MonSTeR 25/04/2002 16:11)
Posted: 16:05 Apr 25 2002
I had the same reaction to the programme as Cat has described. But, in addition to her comments, I wonder how much latent sexism (ideas of chivalry etc) is involved in our reactions.
Consider this: if a woman had attacked Abby with as much ferocity, doing an equal ammount of damage, and then Luca had beaten her up as he did the man, would your reaction to him have been the same?
Consider this: if a woman had attacked Abby with as much ferocity, doing an equal ammount of damage, and then Luca had beaten her up as he did the man, would your reaction to him have been the same?
Posted: 08:15 Apr 26 2002