A teacher on the radio this morning was head of his department and asked the following question:

What other profession expects to work only 35 hours a week and gets 12 weeks paid holiday a year?

Seems a little odd, as I don't know any teacher who works only 35 hours a week. More like 70. As for holidays, as I remember they were usually filled with preparation work, recovery from all the germs picked up off the kids, training, marking, and generally trying to recover in time for the next term. Plus they are fixed dates and the worst possible for going on holiday (as it's also the time when all the kids and their families go on holiday)...

But I ain't a teacher, so I can't really answer Stoo's question. All I can say is that teachers get a rough deal for a vital job, and I couldn't see myself putting up with what successive governments have pushed on them.

(Edited by Jayjay 08/05/2002 12:32)

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by Incandenza
A teacher on the radio this morning was head of his department and asked the following question:

What other profession expects to work only 35 hours a week and gets 12 weeks paid holiday a year?

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The person asking that question obviously has little grasp of the real situation, and is clinging to a very old misconception in the hope of provoking a reaction from the interviewee.

There are lots of professions where people are over worked and underpaid.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but it's not just teachers and other vocational jobs.There are a lot of people who work a 70 hour a week job and probably recieve less than half the wage of a teacher

/me runs off before she gets shouted at

I thought that teachers only worked until 3.30pm so they had the extra two hours that the rest of us work to mark the homework and stuff.

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by Stoo
The person asking that question obviously has little grasp of the real situation, and is clinging to a very old misconception in the hope of provoking a reaction from the interviewee.

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by Incandenza
A teacher on the radio this morning was head of his department and asked the following question:

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He seemed qualified to comment at the time, what with being a teacher and all.

My comment still stands true - The real situation just isn't like that, so I have no idea what he was trying to accomplish, and in fact that only further pushes that misconception.

I guess in all professions you get slackers who ride in on the backs of others. Even some teachers. Although they would make it to head of department I dread to think.

It is quite possible to be a truly awful teacher and to work 35 hours a week and take full advantage of the term breaks. Though I've yet to actually meet one yet.

And yes, as Sange says, there are other professions that are over-worked and under paid. But that doesn't detract from what teachers have to suffer, it just means that there are others suffering too.

I don't think non-teachers will ever realise the emotional intensity of being in a classroom with thirty other individuals for a whole day, with little or no interaction with other adults and sometimes (in my case, as an infant teacher during 'wet play' days!) no more than 15 minutes break in 7 hours. It's incredibly psychologically and physically draining and the fact that you work evenings and weekends means that you never get a chance to recharge. Hence the 'long holidays' are vital in order to feel anywhere near ready to face a new term/year.

Personally, I'm just disappointed that, having just had a baby, I don't feel able to return to teaching on a part time basis. For me, it could never be part-time...

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by Jayjay


And yes, as Sange says, there are other professions that are over-worked and under paid. But that doesn't detract from what teachers have to suffer, it just means that there are others suffering too.

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Which I had no intention of doing , and yes there are a lot of other professions suffering and its a shame that it seems to be one plight after another , Teachers, Nurses, Firemen, Policemen, Dr's, Shopworkers etc etc etc

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from the BBCi article:
Teachers' unions are demanding a limit of 35 hours, as won by Scottish teachers last year.

The Education Secretary, Estelle Morris, has described the idea as "potty"

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Takes one to know one I suppose.

and now I'm going to run away and leave this thread to those who can make more informed comments.

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by Jayjay
Seems a little odd, as I don't know any teacher who works only 35 hours a week. More like 70. As for holidays, as I remember they were usually filled with preparation work, recovery from all the germs picked up off the kids, training, marking, and generally trying to recover in time for the next term. Plus they are fixed dates and the worst possible for going on holiday (as it's also the time when all the kids and their families go on holiday)...

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You seem to have the situation sussed Jayjay!

I am currently nearing the end of my first - and quite possibly last - year of teaching. Quite frankly, I never expected to feel so worn out by everything. As someone else said, being in charge of, and having total responsibility for, 30 or so kids for the whole day is very draining. How often do you hear mums complaining about looking after their kid for the whole day? Now times it by 30!!

I get in to school at 8.00 am every day and usually leave at about 5.30, though I could easily stay much longer. Time not spent teaching is spent: preparing lessons (writing lesson plans and preparing equipment/resources); photocopying; marking; record-keeping; attending meetings; attending training sessions; running after-school clubs; sorting out reading books and putting up "stimulating and attractive wall displays" among other things.

Some things, such as marking, are very time-consuming if they are done properly, i.e. write constructive comments and targets for the children to work towards, not just put ticks or "good". Four/five lessons a day equals a lot of books to mark!

I estimate I spend around 52-55 hours a week working (including time at home on an evening and at weekends). By the time I get home I am too tired to do anything except flop in front of the TV. My wage of £17,000 is good in respect of average wages around here, poor in terms of graduate wages and pathetic when hours worked are taken into account (just above the minimum wage of £4-something an hour).

The job is very stressful, especially for me because as a new teacher I have to make sure I'm excellent at all times so I pass my induction year. If I fail, I am barred from teaching in a state school ever again and I will have wasted a lot of time and money doing my teaching degree. So, not much pressure then.

Personally, at the moment even the rewards of actually teaching the children are not enough to keep me in the profession, because there are so many bad things about it. I think that my quality of life would be so much better in a job where I do not have to take work home with me on an evening or weekend.

The only "perk" at the moment is the long holidays, but believe me, you certainly need them! Also, the govt. is trying to remove this last perk by bringing in more terms and getting rid of the long summer break. Seems like a good way to recruit more teachers!

Sorry for the long post, but I really do think that unless you are a teacher, or live with one, you cannot possibly know what teachers have to do, or the amounts of stress that come with the job (OFSTED anyone?). A lot of people believe the cliche that you start at 8.45 am and finish on the dot of 3.30 pm - take it from me, you're mistaken!

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by Stoo
Teachers to get marking time,

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Uh-huh, yeah right. No doubt this is yet another 'initiative which will give my secondary colleagues *more* non-contact time. As for exactly how it will be funded and delivered in primary sector.. well, lets just say I won't hold my breath.

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What do you think the government should be doing to help you?

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Getting their priorities right. I'm talking the public sector, health and emergency services, and yes of course education.

It's not so much the pay that bothers me, although I wouldn't say no to more cash in the bank... It's not the paper work, becuase even if they government bring in a 35 hour working week for teachers I *know* there is not even the slightest chance of me being able to do my job effectively in only 35 hours a week.

As others have said here, Obviously 35 hours a week is not enough. I work through my lunch break *everyday* I have a glass of water in the morning when I leave for work at 7 and I don't generally have time for another until I get in at 6. If I do make it down to the staff room at afternoon break I'm usually having to ring people back in their 'office hours' or sorting out someones nose bleed. I usually work most evenings, but I try and stop at nine to do my own thing. I also have made a promise to keep Saturdays free. I'm not asking for sympathy, I knew what the job entailed when I got into it. I'm not trying to say "I get a raw deal, feel sorry for me." I'm trying to say that a 35 hour week is just impossible.

How are we supposed to fit *all* of that stuff I do during the week into 35 hours? The answer is (unless you have a school that hasn't been Ofsted-ed in a few years) you can't. I have to say I'm not a member of the NUT or the NASUWT and I'm glad because what they are asking for is just unreasonable (IMHO).

PS Have you seen that TV show "Teachers" on C4? LOL! Its so funny Most enlightening. I wanna work in *that* school!




(Edited by Desire 08/05/2002 22:28)

After 23 years of working in a comprehensive school I can categorically state that I NEVER want to go back into a classroom full time again. Even thinking about it makes me feel nauseous. I certainly don't want to suffer from the nervous breakdowns which dogged many of our staff.
I now only work a few hours which makes for a poorer but infinitely happier zeph!