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by Jango
eating meat is wasteful because it uses up much more farming land to feed animals for human consumption than it would to feed humans directly.

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This is very true - huge tracts of very valuable rain forest have been destroyed and can never be recovered to allow cattle grazing to supply meat - so the chicken and egg scenario is - would he cows be breed for their meat if the demand wasn't there?

*bred* - D'oh

(Edited by Green_Amber 28/06/2002 14:21)

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by Green Amber
huge tracts of very valuable rain forest have been destroyed and can never be recovered to allow cattle grazing to supply meat - so the chicken and egg scenario is - would he cows be breed for their meat if the demand wasn't there?

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If no-one ate meat, cows would probably become extinct I wouldn't think they'd continue to be bred for their milk, after all to get milk a cow has to have a calf, and what do you do with the calves if you won't slaughter them for meat?

ALthough I do agree with that argument, but I wouldn't take it as far as turning all agricultural land over to arable farming. The problems have arisen mostly because the prosperous West eats too much meat, and it would certainly be mauch easier to feer the whole population if some of the land used to raise livestock was returned to arable use.

I pulled this from another Sci-Fi board I frequent.

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Recently 'New Scientist' ran article that talked about the how some nasa sceintists were working on cloning meat from animals. They took a sample of goldfish meat, and fetal bovine syrum managed to make it grow bigger. The meat apparently appeared to be suitable for consumption (they couldn't actually feed it to anyone yet, pending FDA approval for such tests).

As it is now, it uses bovine syrum, which is extracted from fetal cows, so the process is still pretty damn grizzly, and expensive, however, they have made progress using a mushroom-derived syrum.

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by Jango
THe best arguments I've heard for vegetarianism are that A) humans can survive on a completely vegetarian diet and only ape the eating habits of carnivores because they can, being so resourceful (some people argue otherwise)

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Humans are omnivours (look at our teeth if you dont believe me)yes we can survive on a vegetarian diet, It is easier to get all your nutrients from a meat/vegatable based meal.

Of course many people forget that many fruits and vegtables are brutally murdered each day some even being eaten alive.

Stop the Fruit Fatalities

(Edited by JtB 28/06/2002 18:31)

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by JtB
Stop the Fruit Fatalities

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In all fairness, the fruit has it coming to them, bunch of no goods

I think there will come a time when the world will be so overpopulated that the peopel who make the most efficient use of the land (ie. the vegetarians) will stop being pious about their eating habits and start getting plain belligerent about the behaviour of 'meaties'. A time when meat consumption will be seen as equivalent to the murder of future generations, and treated accordingly. I don't know exactly how it will come about, or when (not for 10 years or so, I suspect), but enjoy this life while you can, folks

WELL SAID JANGO

I received my WWF report last week (that's World Wildlife Fund - not the twits in tights - big court case - and the caring environmentalists are winning over the money spinning, choreographed commercial ones, for the moment )
and everything Jango says is true The rainforests and temeprate forests are far more useful to us as they are (or should I say used to be than turning the land over to grazing - it ruins the delicate balance - and we can't tell what could happen. Although of course the large corporations in the good old US tell us there is no such thing as global warming
White Hart - Cow's would never become extinct - they are a sacred animal in certain places in the world - and there are far too many of them anyway - unless of course all the drugs they use in intensive meat rearing cause so many deformities and birth defects that they are killed off that way! I'm far more worried about the approxiamtely 5,000 species a year of plants and creatures that are currently being wiped out. There are only 6,000 tigers left in the wild in the whole world - compare that with the global population of cows!

- This whole topic really, really concerns me - and the more I learn the more concerned I become.

Sorry for ranting

a band im friends with have a song call 'meat is murder' the main lyric in it is

"if meat is murder, than murder tastes good"

gross if you think about it but its all donw to choise. i eat meat but i wont eat anything that looks like an animal, it has to be prosessed crap or whatever. i wont eat things that aren't meant to be pets like rabbit, i stick or normal things. i dont like the way animals are treated such as how they make ville (however its spelt) but i dont take offense to people who do eat things that i dont

To cut a long boring rant from me short, I think that we shouldnt kill animals in a harmful way, and although im a veggie I have no problem with people eating meat, it is just my personal preference not to

i love meat too much to stop. i mean nothing cures a hangover like a bottle of broon and a big sausage and bacon sandwich!!! mmmmmmm

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by Green Amber
White Hart - Cow's would never become extinct - they are a sacred animal in certain places in the world - and there are far too many of them anyway - unless of course all the drugs they use in intensive meat rearing cause so many deformities and birth defects that they are killed off that way! I'm far more worried about the approxiamtely 5,000 species a year of plants and creatures that are currently being wiped out. There are only 6,000 tigers left in the wild in the whole world - compare that with the global population of cows!

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I too am very worried about extinction, and I do agree that far too much land is being turned over to rearing livestock, particularly in the Third World where all that food goes straight to Europe and the US and local populations struggle to grow enough to eat on the poor land that hasn't been bought up by the huge multinationals

However, as you say, there are huge populations of animals that have been bred over centuries as semi-domesticated livestock. I'm not sure modern farm animals would survive in the wild, and if all farmland was turned over to arable then what would be left for them to graze? We could end up with a situation where cows were seen as vermin who ate valuable crops (a bit like fluffy ickle bunny rabbits are viewed by anyone who lives in the country and tries to grow a few vegetables). Actually, I can see an idea for a really good sci-fi story here...

But, to return to the point, I'm not disagreeing with you that it is wrong to wantonly destroy our forest to graze more cows to make more Big Macs. I think the current diet of most of the Western world, with its emphasis on animal proteins, is damaging both the environment and our health. Most people need to eat a lot more vegetables, grains and pulses and a lot less meat, cheese and eggs. We also need to think about where our food is coming from. It may be wrong to buy beef that has been grazed on land that was once rainforest and has been shipped halfway around the world. Why is it any better to buy out-of-season strawberries and asparagus that have been grown in poor countries at the expense of land for the indiginous population to grow enough to eat? This may not have the huge impact cattle ranching does, but to me it's still against what food should be about. I think we're actually coming at the same ideal from different directions. I want seasonal produce, locally grown, sustainably and humanely farmed. I want food not to be big business. And if that means I spend all winter eating parsnips, well, that just means the first stawberries and asparagus taste all the sweeter.

As you've probably guessed, I too feel very concerned and passionate about this topic

I think you've touched on a point I was about to make- I'm not a vegetarian, but I am cutting down on my meat intake because I do think in the Western diet we have too much. Personally I'm bringing it down to about 3-4 meals a week. What you have to remember is that our distant ancestors kept cattle, sheep and hens not just for meat but for milk, wool, eggs and so on. Any animals they ate would either be too old or sick to support or surplus to requirements, and apart from being eaten, their skins or feathers would be put to use for clothing etc and nothing would be wasted.

I was kind of a hardline vegetarian about ten years ago for the space of about a month, but that was for a girl so it didn't really last,but I kept up with some of the recipes. But I could quite happily never look a mung bean in the eye again.

I was a vegetarian about 9 years ago for a couple of years. It wasn't because I woke up one day and though "eating meat is terrible", my dad's girlfriend (now wife) is a veggie and after spending a lot of time with her, her views were imposed on me and I decided to become a veggie too.

I don't know how I lasted 2 years really, as my mum was less than impressed about my "new fad" and for a lot of the time I used to get the main meal minus the meat (basically if they were having chicken mash and peas, I would get mash and peas). If I was lucky I would get a veggie meal.

My exes parents bought veggie stuff in for me for a while, until his mum said that it was getting out of hand and I'd either have to eat meat or go without.

After a while I just started eating meat again.

I do love veggie food, I eat it whenever I'm over at my dad's and sometimes when I'm out for a meal, and it wouldn't bother me too much if meat wasn't in my diet, but I think it's easier to eat meat.

I have no problem with vegetarians, as long as they don't make me feel like I'm evil for eating meat. The cruelest version I can think of this is one my stepmum told me of how she became a veggie.

Her brother had been away at uni and had became veggie. On coming home he got one of the puppies and put it in the oven and switched it on, and said to his shocked sister and mum, "imagine that's the chicken you're about to cook".....

nasty

On coming home he got one of the puppies and put it in the oven and switched it on, and said to his shocked sister and mum, "imagine that's the chicken you're about to cook".....

But so true!

I won't force people to become veggies - but it's amazing how many people force me to watch them eating meat! It works both ways!

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by Green_Amber
but it's amazing how many people force me to watch them eating meat! It works both ways!

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But we don't force you to eat meat - there's a difference. I'm not going to go hungry or eat something I don't like just because a vegetarian is present.

We don't force you to eat vegetables - but they seem to be fairly popular!

Hey - I'm not trying to start a fight - just saying there's a viewpoint from both sides.

I'm a veggie and am proud of it.

Can't be doing with causing pain and suffering to our animals, so choose not to eat the poor blighters.

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by KieranFrost
Even though 12% of the country are 'vegetarians', I'd say 7% do it because it's become popular and really cool to be one, not because of beliefs.

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Since when has it been 'popular' and really cool the be a veggie?

It's something that takes a fair bit of discipline as most of the people on this thread who answered 'I'd like to be veggie but I also like my juicy burgers too much' will testify to.

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by CJL
(quotes)

Since when has it been 'popular' and really cool the be a veggie?

It's something that takes a fair bit of discipline as most of the people on this thread who answered 'I'd like to be veggie but I also like my juicy burgers too much' will testify to.

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Agree 100% there , like I said I would love to be but I just really do enjoy meat far to much

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by Green_Amber
I won't force people to become veggies - but it's amazing how many people force me to watch them eating meat! It works both ways!

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Or... you could not look at their plate, or even excuse yourself from the table if you feel that strongly about it.

Choosing to eat at the same table as someone eating meat isn't really the same as being "forced" to watch them eat, unless you have VERY strange dining practices

(Edited by MonSTeR 01/07/2002 16:29)