Though we all basically knew it, but the police confirmed this evening, that as far as is possible, the two bodies found yesterday are Holly and Jessica.

I can't even begin to think of how their poor parents and families must be feeling right now

It still makes me sick to the stomach wondering what condition the bodies were left in for the police to be having *that* much trouble identifying them

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by Pegasus
It still makes me sick to the stomach wondering what condition the bodies were left in for the police to be having *that* much trouble identifying them

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I don't think that it was due to the fact that they had trouble identifying the bodies. Only a relative/close friend can confirm whether or not it was them and while they had to take their time collecting all the forensic evidence they wouldn't have taken the relative to the site to do the identification. They would have removed the bodies from the site, taken them to the morgue, cleaned them up and then let the family see them.

I'm going to Soham tomorrow to take flowers to the church. Was going to go today but didn't like to due to the fact that nothing was confirmed.

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by Teresa
(quotes)
I'm going to Soham tomorrow to take flowers to the church. Was going to go today but didn't like to due to the fact that nothing was confirmed.

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That's a really sweet gesture. I expect theres a mountain of flowers there now judging by the news earlier.

Hmmmm......

Yes what happened was sad, yes no parent should go through that EVER, but personally, there are more important things in the world. I'm sorry if it's a harsh, but I would have never met them. I can't get worked up over two children I never knew.

To begin with I wanted to know if the bodies had been found. Early on it became clear they were, in all likelyhood, dead. I wanted the parents to at least know, it's unusally cruel to always keep their hopes alive when the kids were already dead.

How can a whole nation can get worked up over two people's death??? In the grand scale of things two deaths mean nothing. Think of how many have died in Palestine or in New York City in the last week. Are there deaths any less important? Should we devote six pages of every issue of every paper to them as well? I don't understand why these two are so speacial?

Is it because they're kids? If so, why should their deaths be so much worse than the kid next door, or an adults just because of age? If the Bulgar killer, died when they were kids, should their death get less press, because they were 'proven evil'? Is it because they're preyed upon due to age? If so is the fatal mugging of a 17 year old less important, even though they were preyed on due to age? Is the rape of a woman, who's preyed upon, far less significant because she was old enough to know better? Is it because they were defenceless? If so, if the torture of animals (who can't defend themselves) or attack on the old not so interesting to read about?

I simply don't understand why people treat these two as anything special? I my view, they're as common as the next death.

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by KieranFrost
I simply don't understand why people treat these two as anything special? I my view, they're as common as the next death.

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I'm sorry you feel that way. I see where you are coming from and *yes* any unnecessary death is always wrong ... very wrong - be it a stabbing, shooting, traffic or air accident.

But in most of these instances the stories normally appear after accidents/murders occur, so yes you don't get a lot of public information, just the facts etc on what apparently happened and whether anyone was caught.

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Should we devote six pages of every issue of every paper to them as well? I don't understand why these two are so speacial?

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children should be special, children should be innocent, and above all the people in the world, I'm personally far more disgusted when children are attacked or murdered. The fact that 6 pages of newspaper were dedicated to the children was not only to highlight the dangers to children but to assist in finding the children (even though all they have found is bodies )

There will obviously be many questions left in the families minds and the publics minds. I for one cannot comprehend why people would want to hurt 2 innocent children and deprive them of a whole lifetime - can you?

We know why Sept 11th happened last year - because someone wanted to make a statement regardless of the lifes cost. But how can someone explain a barbaric direct attack against 2 children.

And with Ian Huntley being sectioned under the mental health act today its unlikely that people will get anything resembling a reason for a long time

Within those 2 weeks there has also been reports of a child missing from a park in the US, also a 4 years old in the US was abducted from a house after someone broke in and shot her parents. There has also been a report of a man trying to rape an 8 year old on Sunday in Colchester. All of these are sickening attacks against children who shouldn't have to be so worried about dangers.

On the latest news reports there is an online condolence book at http://www.sohamtradegy.org.uk/

I think Kieran is overall being a bit harsh, but I do agree with him to a point. I think the problem lies in people's curiosity with death (like the way they all slow down to look at road accidents), and the media, the tabloids in particular, take full advantage.

There are plenty of other stories in the world, they're just not as profitable to the media as this one is. I think like the Princess Diana story we've all being pulled into mass grieving people who we had absolutely no connection to. I think the only people with any legitimate 'interest' in this whole affair are the family and friends. Everyone else is just being a voyeur.

I still think there's a difference between natural, accidental death and abduction murder stories though.

Look at the difference between the media stories on Princess Di and the Queen Mother dying. There was more extended coverage on Di because of the "shock to the nation" whereas the Queen Mum had reached a ripe old age and died naturally.

There are also adult adbuction stories that have featured in the press over the years and at the time they probably reached as much press attention as Holly & Jessica. It has to be a very small consolation to the families that the bodies have been found and someone has been arrested.

Just to break into the discussion here...

I visited Soham yesterday and it was so odd, the weather is dreary and cloudy and the mood was sombre. When we arrived, we recognized the familiar sites from TV; the highstreet, the q8 garage, Soham community college, the Italian Restaurant where they were last seen and the big Church. There were hundreds of flowers. My sister, mum and I lay some lillies for the girls. We spent an hour wandering with the crowds of people around the church, reading the flowers and messages. We all wandered round keeping the silence and in tears.

The messages were mostly the same but the ones that touched me the most were the ones from the people who knew the girls. People left bracelets, angels, pictures of David Beckham, teddy bears, balloons everything. Some boys wanted to steal a portrait of David Beckham, so I gave them a huge evil and my mum was ready to give them a lecture. We lit candles for the girls in the church.

It was a sad day but well worth it to pay my respects and give a little support for Soham and the families of Holly and Jessica.

(Edited by lizzieslayer 21/08/2002 14:56)

I guess the thing thats really turning my stomach now is the fact that after a full proper post morton they can't determine a cause of death - i won't go into what i think this means on the site as its hardly family friendly but suffice to say that i would not want to be on the jury when this goes to trial.

(Edited by Sydney 22/08/2002 11:05)

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by Pegasus
I still think there's a difference between natural, accidental death and abduction murder stories though.

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I totally agree, but 'un-natural' deaths happen every-day, in every country, yet some people are acting as if this is a rarety.

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by lizzieslayer
It was a sad day but well worth it to pay my respects and give a little support for Soham and the families of Holly and Jessica

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by Sydney
And Keiran - i've had a similar conversation with you before in chat only that time you were saying that Sept 11 wasn't that big a deal in the great scheme of things. Either make up your mind or stop trying to provoke negative reaction in a thread that is simply allowing people to express their own shock and grief at these events.

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Considering I've never gone on chat EVER, that seems unlikely. Also I started a thread about reactions after it happened and many months later, talking about how it's effected people after so many months. In that I said I had stopped thinking about it and that was odd, cos it was such an important event. So don't come here and tell me what I did and didn't say.

Keiran - I apologise for my mistake and have edited my post to reflect this

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by Sydney
I apologise for my mistake and have edited my post to reflect this

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It's okay, no harm

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by Sydney
I guess the thing thats really turning my stomach now is the fact that after a full proper post morton they can't determine a cause of death - i won't go into what i think this means on the site as its hardly family friendly but suffice to say that i would not want to be on the jury when this goes to trial.

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Me either I'm not sure how much of this is true or been changed due to "chinese whispers", but I heard today what state the bodies were in from my mother-out-law who had spoke to her father who has a friend who is a police officer working on the case. Like Syd said I don't want to go into it on this site but I mentioned it a little in my online journal and if you know where to find that feel free to have a read


(Edited by Teresa 22/08/2002 18:33)

Yep - I read that T and I felt physically sick

Mmm, read that too T, Feel sick too my stomach!!
I've just been to sign the online condolence book, which I got to by search engine, here's the link, if anyone wants it, or maybe some-ones got a better link?
www.cambs-police.co.uk/soham/
At the moment I see so many little kids walking around on their own, and I have such an urge to go up to them and just say be careful, will you, please!!

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by KieranFrost
(quotes)I totally agree, but 'un-natural' deaths happen every-day, in every country, yet some people are acting as if this is a rarety.

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but child murder of this scale is a rarity.

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So don't come here and tell me what I did and didn't say.

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Ever thought that Syd got you mixed up with someone else - play nice now

I know how you feel Mish, and I don't have children.

I hear tannoy calls nearly everyday at work calling for the parents of children who have let their children out of their sight. One that particularly struck me was a child who came to the customer service desk with a member of staff and had last seen his mother on the market (which over 2 main roads from our place...)

I see children around on their own all the time late at night, and it saddens me because it is obvious now that we don't live in the same world we did when we were children, and parents ought to realise that, but when you see kids of 5 and 6 years old playing in alleys in the dark, that I'm unnerved to be walking down, it's clear that they either don't realise or don't really care

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by misskittyfantastic
... because it is obvious now that we don't live in the same world we did when we were children...

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See, this is the bit that gets me. Can we be sure this is true? That abduction and death is more frequent now? Maybe it's because when I was the age of these kids I was in fear of the Yorkshire Ripper (OK, only attacked women, but as a nine year old that didn't really register, and all I know is that I could see the fear on my mum's face whenever she had to walk us somewhere at night), but I really don't think the problem is any worse now. There have always been dangers, but however horrific the events in Soham are, this is a rarity and we need to keep things in perspective. Be careful, not paranoid.