Sorry, I'm in danger of hijacking this thread, so I'll stop it. But before I do .. .. I'll present one more tid bit on behalf of my client...

So, we agree it's a question of degree, and that at one end we have 'mere' annoyance, and at the other sincere feelings of having your liberty threatened. Seems fair enough. Except. To make something illegal because it makes you feel threatened seems very cagey. For instance, Me and my mates hanging around a street corner chatting away may make some local old love feel threatened. People talking about fags, shirt lifters and the like can make me feel very threatened. Some people, under the current climate, can feel threatened by dark skin and a turban. Again I have to ask where we draw the line.

And I don't agree on your point about degrees. It is quite easy to differentiate between playful slaps and battering someone to death. It's also reasonably easy to seperate the degrees in between. We can look at the amount of physical damage, the intent of both parties, and a number of other issues and catagorise accordingly. Yes, there will be cases where they fall on the grey line in between, but for the most part I can tell you why something is manslaughter, or murder, or assault, or not a crime at all. But to legislate along the line of annoyance/stress seems nowhere near clear cut, and very dangerous.

Anyway, these are really just thoughts your topic and the ensuing discussions have triggered in my mind. And they no longer seem to have much to do with the point. So I'll shut up after I just say that yes, you've convinced me, legislation on this issue is beyond the reasonable remit of government.

I don't think it should be part of the law because it's just one minor thing.

In my area there are fines for dropping litter and allowing dogs to foul playing fields. Isn't this an extention of the same thing? The New York authorities aren't suggesting that people will be put in prison or chargesd with a criminal offence for their mobile going off. Just like the 15 yr old boys who drop cans yards from the bin in the town centre won't be arrested.

I think that the aim of these fines is to encourage people to think about their actions and use the *threat* of a fine as discouragement rather than the actual fine.

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by Sydney
In my area there are fines for dropping litter and allowing dogs to foul playing fields. Isn't this an extention of the same thing?

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Sort of, but there are other factors. If people drop litter, somebody else has to be paid to clean it up. For dog-dirt, there is that and there are also health issues.

And anyway, these fines relate to public property, where it is indeed the responsibility of the authorities to decide what measures should be taken. The measures taken on private property, which almost all performances are, should be down to the owner of the venue.