Actually, I think a person should be judged by their actions. What she and Brady did was evil. No two ways about it. As such, that made her evil at the time. Whether evil is external, eternal, unreformable is a whole other kettle of fish. I don't know if she truly had reformed by the time of her death, but I don't believe any human being is beyond reach, to be unreformable. And that she was evil does not make society evil. Any more than someone else's unceasing kindness makes society beatific. She was a product of genetics and environment (which is so much more complex than just 'society') but to blame her actions on just one of those factors over simplifies everything. Ultimately the only person responsible for her actions was herself.

However, I too can't find any joy in her death. Anymore than I feel sadness. She was out of harms way and all her death does is save some politicians from having to make some very awkward decisions about her liberty.

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by Byron

I also think the thread title is in the poorest possible taste by the way.

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Yes!! I'm sure the victims families are with you on that one!

Hey guys.

The thread title isn't really the issue here. It kinda represents my feelings, but each to their own.

It isn't worth getting into a debate over, so the title's been changed

Personally I see nothing to celebrate in the death of anyone.

Yes, she did terrible things, but to take joy in the death of another person is (to a certain degree) just what they both did.

She was behind bars for 3 decades, that's longer than I have been alive. She paid her debt to society. With regards to the "she's escaped the law" and "she got the easy way out" attitudes of some people (not necessarily on in this thread), I think its ridiculous. Spending 1000 years in prison is not going to bring the victims back or make the pain any less for the families, and speaking as someone who was almost there - death is not an easy way out of anything.

Fair enough, be relieved that a criminal is no longer able to harm anyone, but to break out the champagne is in poor taste

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by Tycho
I just feel sad for the famalies that aren't ever going to know.

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Agreed, there will be no comfort for the victims' families as another door closes and they are no nearer finding answers.

As it appears that both Brady and Hindley took joy in what they did, is such a reason that people deemed them *evil* in the first place. Some papers have quoted that Hindley was still hoping to go to heaven after her death. Although she spent a long time in jail how can you honestly repay those amount of young lives, some of them may have been starved of 60 of their own years.

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by Jayjay
[quote]She was out of harms way and all her death does is save some politicians from having to make some very awkward decisions about her liberty.

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This is the only justice that many people may have thought fitting. No matter what decision the politicians would have made, it wouldn't have been right.



(Edited by Pegasus 18/11/2002 21:17)

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by Yally
I'm finding it really hard to rejoice over another person's death, no matter how screwed up they were. Maybe I'm just coldhearted...

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pretty much the same feeling here

Uh, just purely out of **curiosity**, (I really, really am trying not to offend anyone right now!) what exactly was the original thread title?

Alan if you had read the thread you would have known -"Ding, Dong the Witch is Dead", I believe, the offence was caused to the significant number of Wiccan's who are members of the site (my sister having aspirations to taht area so I fully sympathise and so would never refer to someone 'eveil' as a witch)

My ownb personal views are this - an alarming amount of you are hypocrites: you call someone evil for taking pleasure in other peoples deaths and yet you yourself do the same with myra Hindley. And before anyone starts complaining that it's different because Myra Hindley was a murderer how do you know taht some of the victims weren't worse, like rapists or paedophiles, you don't and it wouldn't justify Myra Hindley's acts any way, just as those acts don't justify your pleasure.

Finally I'd like to say that for once I agree with the bible on this one - "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" a lot of people say they are offended that Myra Hindley was allowed to die peacfully: to those people I say this; could you give the peinful death that she 'deserves', if you could you are in effect a murderer yourself, and a far mor evil one than Myra Hindley.

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by Havoc
And before anyone starts complaining that it's different because Myra Hindley was a murderer how do you know taht some of the victims weren't worse, like rapists or paedophiles

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Weren't all the victims children

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by Teresa
(quotes)

Weren't all the victims children

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Yeah, the oldest was a 17-year-old boy.

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by Havoc
Alan if you had read the thread you would have known -"Ding, Dong the Witch is Dead",

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Excuse me Havoc, but did I not tell you (in person) that I was unable to get on T21 until this (Tues 19/11) morning?

By this time, the thread was named "Myra Hindley - Dead" so I didn't know that the thread was originally titled what it was, and thus didn't understand what the witch reference was.

(Edited by Alan 19/11/2002 12:52)

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by Byron
(quotes)
Yeah, the oldest was a 17-year-old boy.

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No I read on a website that they think the oldest was a 55 year old lady.

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by Yvonne
Personally I see nothing to celebrate in the death of anyone.

Yes, she did terrible things, but to take joy in the death of another person is (to a certain degree) just what they both did.

She was behind bars for 3 decades, that's longer than I have been alive. She paid her debt to society. With regards to the "she's escaped the law" and "she got the easy way out" attitudes of some people (not necessarily on in this thread), I think its ridiculous. Spending 1000 years in prison is not going to bring the victims back or make the pain any less for the families, and speaking as someone who was almost there - death is not an easy way out of anything.

Fair enough, be relieved that a criminal is no longer able to harm anyone, but to break out the champagne is in poor taste

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But spending 1000 years in prison would definetly be paying for the crime which I think she *should* be paying. I personally do think she has escaped, but I am saying this as a person who doesn't know whats after death. Maybe some sort of worse torture than prison, who knows. I still think she should be paying still. And I do not believe she payed her debt to society. She could never repay anything to the families of the victims. She may have been behind bars but if I am right was pretty proud of her doings. Sick lady doesn't even cover it. Also I think it will be easier for the families if she is behind bars, right? Cos if she was roaming around a free lady don't you think that they'd be even more angry and hurt.

And I don't feel that the victims families will all be breaking out the champagne, or anyone (who'd waste champagne on that cow?). They probably feel even worse, especailly the families who never got the bodies back.

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by Havoc
And before anyone starts complaining that it's different because Myra Hindley was a murderer how do you know taht some of the victims weren't worse, like rapists or paedophiles

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this comment alone gives the impression that you knew nothing of what Hindley and Brady inflicted on those 5 young children (all aged between 10 and 17 i believe) they had tortured and killed. Now I have said nothing so far about her death was told at a young age about the two murderers but it has all just seemed a story till now but still i have no feelings as to her death but i do feel it extremely sad that the parents of Keith Bennett will never be able to put their son to rest.

"evil" though used a lot by the papers is the only word some feel can describe what she/they did but then its a freely used word can you think of a better word? Im not saying she was connected to the devil (which is where i always thought the word derived from devil) but can you think of another word that might be able to describe what they did? how about nasty? not very nice? mean? it's just a word.

before you start putting your opinion out there i suggest you find out what happened all those years ago so then you can argue a point properly or put your views forward.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/news/page.cfm?objectid=12367540&method=full&siteid=89488

here's a story to start with.

(not having a go really but feel if anyone is to argue or put forward a point they should know what happened or what they are talking about.)

(Edited by EvilWillow 19/11/2002 16:55)

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by lizzieslayer
Also I think it will be easier for the families if she is behind bars, right? Cos if she was roaming around a free lady don't you think that they'd be even more angry and hurt.

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I never suggested that she had been in prison for long enough and should have been released before death, simply that half of her life had been spent behind bars and so she had not "escaped" from her imprisonment.

Quite frankly I think it will be easier on the families now that she has passed on. They will no longer have to worry about any possible release (though she'd urely have been killed by the general public) and once the media tires with the story, they will be able to close the book on a tragic time.

As for the families of the still missing, my heart goes out to them, but even if she had lived another 30 years I doubt that she'd have ever told the police where they were.

"Brady claimed another victim buried on the moor, a man murdered in Manchester, a woman dumped in a canal, and two victims gunned down in Scotland, at Glasgow and Loch Long. None of the victims were identified, but police announced that they were reopening the files on two ancient murders, including the 1963 beating death of 55-year-old Veronica Bondi in Manchester , and the 1965 strangulation of Edith Gleave, a 38-year-old prostitute, in Stockport. No further information is forthcoming in those cases, but it was announced -- on January 14, 1988 -- that no prosecution is anticipated in the cases of Pauline Reade and Keith Bennett."

Tis from a website.
Beware, there is explicit detail that may upset people, of how the children were killed. So if you feel you cannot cope with it, please do not look.
www.angelfire.com/oh/yodaspage/brady.html


(Edited by lizzieslayer 19/11/2002 19:19)

Purly about the 'evil' comment. I never descibe people as evil, I feel nothing you or I can comprehend does the word justice. To be pure evil is something humans are incapable of, we could desperatly try to become 'pure evil' but it will never happen. Humans are fickle, they feel erratic emotions at numerous times and NO-ONE, ANYWHERE is evil 24/7 from the dawn of their birth. Describing actions as evil, maybe. A whole act can be void of any good or kindness, but still, grey area on whether to use it.

What Hindley did was terrible, unspeakable curelty, but she ISN'T evil. I think she was seriously messed up in the head, as was Bradly. Let it rest, she's dead, nothing will bring the victims back, it's over and we should leave it at that. No-one here is qualified to judge her, or the crimes. I don't think anyone every will...

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by lizzieslayer
"Brady claimed another victim buried on the moor, a man murdered in Manchester, a woman dumped in a canal, and two victims gunned down in Scotland, at Glasgow and Loch Long. None of the victims were identified, but police announced that they were reopening the files on two ancient murders, including the 1963 beating death of 55-year-old Veronica Bondi in Manchester , and the 1965 strangulation of Edith Gleave, a 38-year-old prostitute, in Stockport. No further information is forthcoming in those cases, but it was announced -- on January 14, 1988 -- that no prosecution is anticipated in the cases of Pauline Reade and Keith Bennett."

Tis from a website.
Beware, there is explicit detail that may upset people, of how the children were killed. So if you feel you cannot cope with it, please do not look.
www.angelfire.com/oh/yodaspage/brady.html


(Edited by lizzieslayer 19/11/2002 19:19)

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I was referring to the acts that Hindley was directly involved with and confessed to/convicted of as that was what this thread covered/was about; Hindley, I never knew of Brady's acts of violence/murder and I wouldnt defend anybody who murdered if victims were criminal or otherwise, murder is murder.
(not having a go was just saying)

I wasn't picking on your or anything! Just thought that I had made a mistake thinking that the two had killed other people over 17. I just posted that link to follow up my comment about a 55 year old being killed.