They are always in charge in the movies

I don't think China is gonna care what the USA thinks about it's space program...
And somehow I don't think the USA is just gonna shoot at Chinese sattelites.

Noid
Good point.

Also lets face it, who else has a viable space programme?
Arianespace seem very good at building multimillion pound fireworks (although anyone who has seen the wreckage of my attempt at the sound barrier knows I shouldn't be so smug *g*). The Proton series isn't that much better either.

It's a bit of a hollow threat by the murricans cause they know that know one else has a chance of getting anything to stay in orbit.

Having said that, I'm still in the 'Americans - boooo hisss' camp *g*

Just more evidence of the start of Empire USA. And as they clearly do not see any difference between communication satellites and Military survailance satellites this threat is not just to agancies with space programs (like China or the EU) but any nation with satellites put in space by such nations.

Or even commercial agencies. Is it really impossible to see the US declaring Al Jazeera a propaganda tool of Al Qaeda and destroying it's satellites?

I don't think this is something to be taken lightly, but as a sign of the power of people like Rumsfeld and the Pentagon, and their establishment of One Planet, Under The USA.

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by Jayjay
Is it really impossible to see the US declaring Al Jazeera a propaganda tool of Al Qaeda and destroying it's satellites?

I don't think this is something to be taken lightly, but as a sign of the power of people like Rumsfeld and the Pentagon, and their establishment of One Planet, Under The USA.

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First of all there are very little newsagents that actually have their own satellites. Al Jazeera is just broadcasted via a set of satellites used by hunderds of other channels and other communication lines besides TV. So that would be shooting a shotgun at someone's chest to remove a bit of lung cancer. Not even the USA can be that stupid (or can they....)

I doubt we have much to fear about all this. As the EU will just keep launching it's satellites so will China, Japan and Russia. The moment any of those rockets or satellites gets shot down or destroyed and they can link that to the USA hell will break lose.

Economic sanctions etc etc etc, thats the last thing the US economy needs.

I think this could get very interesting...... I would just want to see them try

The only thing they create is more hatred against themselves.... I'm pretty sure there must be atleast a few people on this globe that will not stand for it (or just hate the USA anyways) and will probably attack the USA in some manner.

Will be a pitty for the poor people that will be killed but it's their own government that is doing it to them.

When will they grow up? The USA is like a little kid not wanting to share even with it's allies.

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by Chambler
Not even the USA can be that stupid (or can they....)

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Well, not so much stupid as arrogant.

Yes, with the exception of people like Murdoch (I believe), most satellite broadcasters use a third party supplier of hardware to broadcast their signal. This changes nothing.

Imagine the scenario. Al Jazeera broadcasts a message from Osama bin Laden, urging Muslims to take arms against the infidel. Rumsfeld condemns 'irresponsible broadcasters' for promoting a terrorist agenda and an enemy of the USA. Next up is Bush making the ultimatum that those satellite providers carrying signals from proscribed organizations must cease doing so or face the consequences. The consequences being the destruction of their hardware. They may not even need to carry out the threat as no commercial organization is going to risk its hardware for the sake of a few broadcasters. They just need the ability to do so to get their wish.

As for world outrage, well, we had that over Iraq. Didn't change anything. And as the UN has shown that everyone else caved in after the fact, and the principle opponents are now begging forgiveness, or at least showing they were pro-USA all along. The USA gets what it wants, right down to control of oil revenue and recognition as an occupying power. Sanctions are lifted, not raised.

This isn't so much a small kid refusing to share, as it is the hardest thug on the manner realising the only other person hard enough to take them on kicked the bucket over a decade ok, so now they're going to do whatever they damn well please. Everyone else is split up into two groups: Those who are economically and/or militarily dependent on the USA (which would seem to include us); Everyone else, who had better do whatever the USA says or face probable invasion.

This isn't mad-conspiracy-theory-land stuff. In the space of less than two years we have had the removal of governments in two nations by armed force, and the Pentagon has just publicly announced its desire for regime change in Iran. These are very scary times indeed.

Yes, the hatred of the USA worldwide is (mostly) self made. How much was this realised after the attacks of September 11th 2001? As the reaction gets hotter so does US activity, leading us into a deadly vicious circle.

I restate my view expressed elsewhere - personally, I am more scared now than I ever was during the cold war. In fact, I miss the relative security of the cold war. Something I thought could not be possible.

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by Jayjay

As for world outrage, well, we had that over Iraq. Didn't change anything. And as the UN has shown that everyone else caved in after the fact, and the principle opponents are now begging forgiveness, or at least showing they were pro-USA all along. The USA gets what it wants, right down to control of oil revenue and recognition as an occupying power. Sanctions are lifted, not raised.

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See, I think this is a big part of the problem. The arrogance will continue, and even grow, as long as the rest of the world continues to cave in the face of it.

And, may I suggest that you replace "the USA" with the "the Bush administration" in your tirades against the present American government policy. I agree with just about everything you're saying, but I refuse to be tarred with that brush. Likewise millions of other Americans who are just as disgusted by the arrogant behavior of this government as you are.

Say what you want about Bill Clinton, but if he were still president, none of this crap would be going on. The US government has been hijacked by a bunch of arrogant, right-wing, fundamentalist fanatic radicals who are basiclly drunk with power and feel that they can do anything they damn well please. So far, the rest of the world--including the opposition in the US--hasn't done a damn thing to make them give up that notion. All it would take is "regime change" in Washington next year for a lot of the worst elements of what has been going on for the last year or two to stop. Of course, I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to happen. But as long as this group of Republicans stays in power, it's going to get worse, not better.

Sorry, I should have made my opinions clearer. I get so carried away that I assume everyone here knows certain aspects of my opinions and forget to restate them for fear of boring people.

Where I've said USA I do indeed mean the Bush administration. I'm not anti-American, in fact I've argued in threads on this site for America’s positive cultural impact and against stereotypes of dumb Americans and 'only in America' type statements. I visit the country frequently and have many friends out there. I have even been known to complain that the Brits should take a few tips from American culture.

And of course, the Bush administration is not a democratically elected one. However, it could well be after 2004. Lack of credible opposition candidates, and a certain amount of macho war victory gung ho spirit in the mainstream, could well lead to a Bush election victory. That won't make him any less a danger to world peace, or any more palatable.

And in case there's any remaining suspicion of European smugness, I am just as horrified of my own government (and my own party leadership), and of the governments of Italy and Spain, our right-wing allies. In fact take that triumvirate and swap the UK for Germany and you have a familiar sounding alliance of right-wing European governments.

Anyway, yes, I never meant to tar all Americans (or even all citizens of the USA) with the same Bush brush. And, yes, I agree that world security now depends on either the removal of Bush at the next election or the rest of the world drawing a line in the sand and sticking to it. As the former looks increasingly unlikely I am increasingly convinced that a United Europe is about the only way the latter will happen.

Well, this is absurd really and seems to me to be a symptom of the arrogance of the current administration as mentioned before by Jayjay and Sandia.

Bush's administration wasn't elected democratically and after September 11th used the fear, anger and national ferver to get through a lot of legislation that dramatically reduces the civil liberties of it's citizens (i'm thinking The Patriot Act mainly). It's intelligence agencies have seen massive increases in budget and what they can do, a man who many throughout the world would like to see standing before a War crimes tribunal, Henry Kissinger, has been restored to a prominent position (he was put in charge of an investigation into September 11th)... these are just internal problems, after that there is the external aggression pointed towards any nation that doesn't fit with Washington's own image of what they should be.

This is all ridiculously hypocritical. They demand that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction and use it as an excuse to invade and conquer, they demand that North Korea cease it's nuclear program, they point fingers and accusations at Iran, Syria, Cuba and a host of other nations in the name of human rights, yet the USA (and other western countries) possesses a nuclear arsenal and yet they refuse to answer to claims that they are violating human rights treaties in Gauntanamo Bay.

Like Jayjay i have visited and very much enjoy America and it's culture and what is happening at the moment deeply concerns me, not only because of what it means for american citizens and citizens in countries around the world, but what it means for Britain and Europe... with Blair siding with Bush he has widened the gap between Britain and Europe at a time when we need to be integrating and uniting with the rest of the continent.

People who know me will know that I very much hold to the idea that Britain should be building better relationships with it's European partners and building towards a more united Europe, a Europe that given time could become a single country (something that i will maybe open another thread for) but that will not happen if Britain and Europe do not stand up to the Bush Administration's antics.

Seems li've rehashed what others before me have said, but it's obviously a common set of views.

I vote they put Will Smith in charge of this In fact I vote Big Willy for President

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by MonSTeR
In fact I vote Big Willy for President

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I thought they already had a complete richard for pres?

Actually on a "slightly" more serious note I'm not surprised at the plans to do this, territorial claim has long been staked according to the "might is right" principle and in truth I don't see any other nation having a credible low Earth orbit capability any time soon which effectively gives anyone who can put things up there one hell of an advantage.

It's a shame that this still goes on in the 21st century, but surely not a surprising thing?

Not surprising now considering the past actions of the Bush administration..
Having a competetive advantage is one thing, to actively say to anyone else "if you attempt to launch *any* form of low earth orbit device we will knock it out of the sky" is completely rediculous, not to mention arrogant, absurd, childish, moronic etc etc etc..

Regime change in the US is exactly what they are trying to prevent with restructuring the senate to stack the deck massively in their favour..

Fun times ahead..

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by Stoo
Regime change in the US is exactly what they are trying to prevent with restructuring the senate to stack the deck massively in their favour..

Fun times ahead..

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Do you really think it will be any different if the other side is in charge, there is always someone In the background pulling the strings and writing the cheques.

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by JtB
(quotes)

Do you really think it will be any different if the other side is in charge, there is always someone In the background pulling the strings and writing the cheques.

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That's the point, if the current plan goes ahead, the other side wouldn't be able to get in charge, and the only thing which could topple it would be basically a second american revolution.
The current administration is the worst in the entire history of the United States of America, the average american's civil rights has never been so restricted, and is literally being cut back day by day, largely through the guise of "protection" and "anti-terrorism". It's scaremongering at it's worst, the only people benefitting from *anything* the current administration has done are the massive corporations, and the very rich.

For example, the latest tax cut Mr Bush is so proud of give next to nothing to low income familes where the most benefit would be gained (and is badly needed as the standard of living for low income families in America is dropping alarmingly), while the rich and large corporations get an enormous tax break. All this at a time when there is a massive National Debt, and the current administration is borrowing even more all the time.
*Something* will give before too long and whatever it is, it won't be pretty.

On a side note: E.U. Agrees To Launch Galileo Satellite Location System

Reading some of the posts on Slashdot about the story is just amazing...

Even with all of America's posturing about how it is the only superpower in the world you must remember there is one country that they will not antagonise at all what is this country i hear you cry. Well the answer is China, you may laugh at this but a short while ago the chinese shot down an american spy plane and forced the American's to apologise for it (anybody who saw George Dubya on tv doing a squirming apology will remember this). So i can see the same thing happening again america gets to big for it's boots does a bit of posturing China steps up and smacks them down again. after all would you want to fight a nation that has had no economic sanctions put against it in the last 20 years and has also got the largest standing army in the world (well it's either them or North Korea)

www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2003/01/13/tomo/story.jpg