Errrrr.....the Protection of Children Act says that?? Or is there another POCA?

I'd like more information before I made a judgement. It sounds like, if this is a law/proposed law, it's not much different in scope from the requirements under existing money laundering regulations with regard to reporting suspicions/possible suspicious transactions, so nothing to go off the deep end about. If you paid for a large value item in cash, there is already a requirement for this to be reported under those laws. Note that suspicion does not have to equal guilt.

I haven't seen any evidence (well of anything really), but particularly that this would have any impact on client confidentiality for Solicitors. I doubt that it would, as that would require several other laws to be changed as well.

I feel the same way about this as I do about a lot of laws. If you're not a tax cheat, what's to worry about?

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by Avenger
Errrrr.....the Protection of Children Act says that?? Or is there another POCA?

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Proceeds Of Crime Act

Said the CPS employee.......

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by Whistler
(quotes)

Proceeds Of Crime Act

Said the CPS employee.......

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Ahhh, thanks! In which case:

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by Cat
Most of you wont know this, because i have done searched for a web link and i cant find one. Know why? the goverment doesnt want you to know!

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Slightly overdramatic. This legislation has been debated in Parliament and, as with all legislation, is freely available for everyone to read. If you care to google "Proceeds of Crime Act 2002" you will find it very quickly.

I am still not sure where tax evasion comess into it (though will admit to not having read the whole thing), but this act does include an update of the money laundering regulations that I refered to earlier. I don't know whether this was what you were refering to, if so, these are not new laws, we have had money laundering regulations for a long time. From memory (used to work in a Post Office) any cash transaction of over 10000 pounds attracts a compulsary report, and any transaction of less than this ammount that the person recieving the money believes suspicious should also be reported. Again, anyone who isn't laundering dodgy money has no reason to fear. Apologies if that wasn't the part of the act you were refering to, like I said I didn't read the whole thing.

To put it in simple terms, the main purpose of this legislation is to target those who make money through criminal activities and to freeze their assets before they can move them on which was what happened, and still does, under the current legislation.

Financial Investigation Units are too small to be concerned with anyone other than habitual criminals, particularly those concerned in the drug trade.

Cat - this is nothing but scare mongering. What you should be more concerned about is the fact that millions are not recovered each year through illegal activities and the Government are now being pro-active in trying to recover these ill-gotten gains.

(Edited by Whistler 21/11/2003 23:12)

I don't see the problem. People who routinly deal with larges sums of money reporting potential tax evasion?

Sounds like a fairly good idea to me.

(Edited by Tycho 21/11/2003 23:40)

Don't most of the career criminals who take advantage of these laws head off to Spain when things get bleak

I have read thiese posts with great interest, and it is with a huge sigh of relief that my Mars Bar scam (they are actually Milky Ways with Mars Bar written on top in black marker, but keep it too yaself) won't be investigated.

These laws are for tax evasion, not just money laundering.

I read the Daily Mail every day and i havent read anything in the finance/city sections about this legislation.

In the spanish papers though there is usually an article a week aimed at ex-pats with holdings still in the UK.

How come a foreign paper prints more on this than the UK ones?

Secondly, yes it does affect scolicitors and client confidenciality. if i had a link i'd give you one but, as i say there doesnt appear to be one (unless ypu want to read the whole act in Legalese).

thirdly, the laws are being widened to include new professions and ALL their employees. That means that is your accountant's receptionist even suspects, not has proof, but suspects you of tax evasion, even as little as £1, they are bound by law to report you.

fourthly, once reported, your accountant (or whoever reports you) isnt allowed to let you know a report has been made.

My real problem with this is that it's so underhand. especially since they've taken away client confidenciality.

I know, the innocent have nothing to fear, but can you be 100% certain you've never made a genuine mistake in your tax return?

Ever sold a car/furniture/computer/TV/video/puppy/picture etc etc etc and not declaired the cash? Dont tell anyone then because under these laws you received moneys on which you didnt pay tax.

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by Cat
I read the Daily Mail every day

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I think I have a bit more of a handle on this now having done a little research. I'm not sure what you were searching on, but there is a lot of online comment that can be found on this matter.

The act does focus on money laundering (hence "proceeds of crime", I assume that what you mean about tax evasion is with regard to the movement of the proceeds of tax evasion. The Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 appears to mostly be a consolidation of various laws that were already in force, but were scattered throughout different bits of legislation.

The point of the Act is that if, for example, your accountant believes you are laundering dodgy money, but does not alert the authorities, they have helped you in the crime, and so have committed a crime themselves.

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by Cat
thirdly, the laws are being widened to include new professions and ALL their employees. That means that is your accountant's receptionist even suspects, not has proof, but suspects you of tax evasion, even as little as £1, they are bound by law to report you.

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This may be true, but not really sure why it is relevant. On what basis would your accountant's receptionist have this suspicion. You can't just send someone's name to NCIS, I think they need a report on the basis of the suspicion too.

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by Cat
fourthly, once reported, your accountant (or whoever reports you) isnt allowed to let you know a report has been made.

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True. You are not allowed to tell the person that they are under possible investigation. Seems like a no-brainer to me. Solicitors, who you seem to have particularly focused on, would have more leverage on this, as they also have certain obligations with regard to providing the best legal advice to their clients. Details of this can be found with a quick google search.

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by Cat
My real problem with this is that it's so underhand. especially since they've taken away client confidenciality.

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Underhand how? I still haven't seen any evidence that "client confidentiality" has been "taken away", like I said before I believe this would require a lot of other laws to be repealed.

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by Cat
Ever sold a car/furniture/computer/TV/video/puppy/picture etc etc etc and not declaired the cash? Dont tell anyone then because under these laws you received moneys on which you didnt pay tax.

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Untrue. You may well be guilty of something, but it is nothing to do with this law. Recieving money and not paying tax on it was illegal a long time before 2002.

Pah, can't post a quote in brackets without it turning into a winking smiley!

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by Avenger
Pah, can't post a quote in brackets without it turning into a winking smiley!

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You can if you leave a space ("see" )

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by Teresa
(quotes)

You can if you leave a space ("see" )

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Go 'geek girl'

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by Teresa
You can if you leave a space ("see" )

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Tsch, Techies

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by Cat
I read the Daily Mail every day and i havent read anything in the finance/city sections about this legislation.

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The PoCA is mainly aimed at the financial industry. My understanding (as an employee of the Inland Revenue) is that the main aim of the legislation is to ensure that accountants and the like aren't hiding income from the government because it is unlawfully gained.
The Inland Revenue doesn't care where your money comes from as long as you pay tax.
I have personally dealt with the tax records of prostitutes, drug dealers and burglars over the last 10 years or so.

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How come a foreign paper prints more on this than the UK ones?

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Probably because our papers are obsessed with Michael Jackson at the moment

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I know, the innocent have nothing to fear, but can you be 100% certain you've never made a genuine mistake in your tax return?

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Mistakes and omissions happen all the time. The PoCA is just for what it says on the tin. The Proceeds of Crime. If you commit a criminal offence and gain money by it (bank robbery, drug dealing, prostitution, money laundering... etc etc) then your accountant is obliged to tell the Revenue about the money. Not the crime. Just the money.

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Ever sold a car/furniture/computer/TV/video/puppy/picture etc etc etc and not declaired the cash? Dont tell anyone then because under these laws you received moneys on which you didnt pay tax.

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Not just under these laws. The Taxes Management Act of (I think) 1970 covers not declaring money earned legally. Selling your own property isn't illegal. Not declaring income on it is.
As I said, the new act is only to cover the proceeds of criminal activity

Dodgy-looking tax returns have been subject to inquiry since forever. Selling things you have already bought (i.e. your own stuff at car boot sales) is rarely subject to tax, because tax is payable only on profit. If you buy something, and sell it later, you rarely, if ever, make a profit, so you have nothing to declare. If, however, you start a second-hand goods business buying other people's stuff and selling it on at a profit, you have to declare it. That's always been the law.
This is a small amendment to stop people burying ill-gotten gains. It only applies if you're a criminal - not a tax-dodger, but a real criminal.

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by Cat
Most of you wont know this, because i have done searched for a web link and i cant find one. Know why? the goverment doesnt want you to know!

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It doesn't matter whether "they" want you to know: all legislation is automatically public record.

Her Majesty's Stationary Office contains the complete text of all Acts of Parliament passed after 1988. They can be found at www.hmso.gov.uk . Parliament's website contains Hansard (verbatim transcripts of all Parliamentary debates) from 1998 onwards, it can be found at www.parliament.uk/ .

And why would the government want to keep people in the dark aboout an Act designed to deter criminals from money laundering? A secret deterent is nobody's friend!

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by Byron
And why would the government want to keep people in the dark aboout an Act designed to deter criminals from money laundering? A secret deterent is nobody's friend!

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The same goverment who's spin doctors thought 9/11 was a "good day to bury news" and who's budgets only include the good stuff leaving news men to read the fine print later, and the same goverment who tells people that resignations have been accpted when no such resignation exists?

I dunno.

most of my detailed information comes in news letters from the Financial Correspondent of Blevin Franks International accountants firm in their news letters. I'm just passing on what he says in his reports (and from news paper atricles)

Basically, e-mail the firm if you still dissagree. i'm not an accountant, he is. he told me this info, i believe him.

thankfully i no longer have any holdings in the UK as i choose to pay tax here, i just thought people might like to know.

I'm telling it as i have read it. If you all think you know better than Bill Blevin of Blevin Franks International, please direct your comments to his firm.

www.blevinsfranks.com
bill.blevin@blevinfranks.com

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by Cat
George Orwell was off by only 19 years.

Think twice before you buy a car in cash next time. the dealer might think it suspect and then you really are up the creak!

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1984 this is nothing take a look at the Patriot Act in the States for restricting freedoms.

And working at a car dealer, people paying in cash big amounts is an everyday occurence and not in the least bit suspect as people refuse to pay a fortune for bankers drafts.

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by Cat
The same goverment who's spin doctors thought 9/11 was a "good day to bury news" and who's budgets only include the good stuff leaving news men to read the fine print later, and the same goverment who tells people that resignations have been accpted when no such resignation exists?

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I wouldn't care to comment on the government's general record for honesty, but in this instance, not only does orchestrating some massive coverup make no sense, it's also a practical impossibility, since all the legislation is firmly in the public domain.

So what exactly are you accusing them of?

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by Byron
(quotes)
So what exactly are you accusing them of?

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In this instance, not being up front about it.

OK, it's in the public domain, but how many people really read each new legislation. i doubt even most ministers do. They could be a lot more forthcoming.

I just wanted to let people know that there are a lot more people watching you now under threat of jail.

(and if you disagree with that, take it up with the above Bill Blevin. i havent read the new legislation because it doesnt apply to me and i hate reding legalese.)