Well, he never looked likely to actually face up to what he had done.

I hope the fact that the relatives of his victims can all find a way to deal with the consequences of his crimes

I actually think thats an easy way out. But I agree I hope his family can mourn then move on.

Well, here's hoping the relatives of the victims can finally move on... and not paying for that evil monsters keep will save the taxpayer a bit, anyway.

Given his continuing denial of any wrongdoing, I don't think he would ever have admitted his crimes, so maybe it's just as well it all ended this way.

Blimey! *cue collective mutterings of "Oh ----!" from prison service as they await possibilities of hostile tabloid response*

I would've thought after Ian Huntley (Boo! Hiss! and various other postable putdowns/insults, etc.) had tried to top himself, they would've been watching inmates accused of similar crimes or of a similar public opinion much more closely?

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by Alan
Blimey! *cue collective mutterings of "Oh ----!" from prison service as they await possibilities of hostile tabloid response*

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Oh the twisted irony; they demand he's strung up at the time of thew trial, now they're going to attack the prison service for letting him do exactly that!

I don't think it's a good thing with a view to saying taxplayers a few bob -- the ammount is negligable compared to the cash ministers plunge into arms sales, and I'd feel queasy putting money over any life -- but if he was never going to show remorse, this is probably the best end for all concerned.

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by Byron
now they're going to attack the prison service for letting him do exactly that!

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Of course it could turn out that somebody didn't so much let him do it as do it all by themselves... you never know!

(NB: don't worry admin people, I'm not accusing anybody of anything, you know me; just babbling! )

(Edited by Alan 13/01/2004 15:21)

Aww, shame!

Aah well, i shant attack the prison service at all. he should have died and in taking his own life he had just saved the british tax payer £30,000 a year (what it costs to keep him)

My only problem with it is that it was too easy a death and doesnt provide much closure for the families of his victims. Especially those cases that were likley but not proved. now no one will ever know.

If there is an afterlife though, i just hope his victims are lined up with spritual baseball bats to send him on his way to hell!

Presumably by "he should have died" you mean he should have been executed?

If so, he'd have gone by exactly the same means! Unless you're proposing we hang, draw and quarter murderes on a scaffold outside Traitor's Gate, which seems a bit ... messy really.

I think his life should have been protected to the best of the Prison Service's ability. We don't practice capital punishment in this country and i don't think we should.

By keeping Shipman alive and studying him i think we could have learned a great deal more than we can by celebrating his death like a bunch of prairie dogs.

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by Maffrew
By keeping Shipman alive and studying him i think we could have learned a great deal more than we can by celebrating his death like a bunch of prairie dogs.

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what is there to learn? why he did it? what happened to him to make him this way? and what would be the point? mass-murderers (or any kind of murderer) all have their own reasons for doing such things studying them only if anything give you the reason why that particular person did what he did and knowing the reason doesnt make it any better or solve anything.
(not starting anything just your comment made me wonder)

(Edited by bipolar 13/01/2004 18:16)

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by Byron
Presumably by "he should have died" you mean he should have been executed?

If so, he'd have gone by exactly the same means! Unless you're proposing we hang, draw and quarter murderes on a scaffold outside Traitor's Gate, which seems a bit ... messy really.

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Yes. i believe in the death penalty.

Often it's the only thing the US authorities have to hang over an offenders head. tell all and you might get a reprieve (well, unless George Bush was your govenor that is).

Add to that they wait 15 - 20 years on death row, have appeal after appeal and ample time for new evidence to be brought to light... well their cant be many innocent people killed, i doubt any.

And as much as i like the idea of hanging or the electric chair, i still think lethal injection is the best way to execute someone. I'm not totally evil you know.

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by Cat
Add to that they wait 15 - 20 years on death row, have appeal after appeal and ample time for new evidence to be brought to light... well their cant be many innocent people killed, i doubt any.

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Is there a number of 'mistaken' executions that you would consider acceptable? In the US, there is a lot of evidence of mentally ill people being executed, if not actually innocent ones.

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by Cat
(quotes)

Yes. i believe in the death penalty.

Often it's the only thing the US authorities have to hang over an offenders head. tell all and you might get a reprieve (well, unless George Bush was your govenor that is).

Add to that they wait 15 - 20 years on death row, have appeal after appeal and ample time for new evidence to be brought to light... well their cant be many innocent people killed, i doubt any.

And as much as i like the idea of hanging or the electric chair, i still think lethal injection is the best way to execute someone. I'm not totally evil you know.

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Capital punishment has never been proven to deter murderers. It costs more to execute someone in America than it does to imprison them for life.

The only argument for the death penalty that holds up is that inflicting death is the appropriate judicial revenge for murder. This is debatable -- personally I hate the idea of a justice system based on vengeance, and think an execution is more humane than life imprisonment -- but what is not is that people make mistakes. The governor of Illinois recently called a moratorium on executions because of fears innocent people, disproportionately Afican-Americans, were being murdered by the state. As long as people are fallible, the innocent will be killed.

A long-drop hanging, where death is painless and instantaneous, is more humane than a lethal injection, which takes up to 40 minutes to administer. Putting someone through decades of life with the knowledge they could be killed at any moment has to be the worst form of torture ever devised. America has tried to sanitise its execution process in method, but has only succeeded in further barbarising it. Capital punishment is inherently brutal, and I think it better this is rejected entirely. There's just no need for it.

If employing capital punishment was proven to have drastic effects on crime reduction, judicial murder might be palatable. But it doesn't, so it isn't.

Maffrew has posted a thread about this issue here, so I think it best if any further posts on it are moved to that thread.

(Edited by Byron 13/01/2004 22:39)

Many people have said death was to easy for Shipman, now I have no postive feelings towards the guy, much the opposite, but I have to wonder if any of you have the slightest idea how horrific it feels to be the hand of your own destruction, and the level of courage, not cowardfice to put yourself through the pain you know you will feel, I know what this is like, so please before you make any more comments like that think them through.

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by Havoc
Many people have said death was to easy for Shipman, now I have no postive feelings towards the guy, much the opposite, but I have to wonder if any of you have the slightest idea how horrific it feels to be the hand of your own destruction, and the level of courage, not cowardfice to put yourself through the pain you know you will feel, I know what this is like, so please before you make any more comments like that think them through.

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from someone who has attempted it twice seriously (but failed) it does depend on the state of mind it's alot easier to do it when your mind is set thats it's the right thing to do then say sitting at home and wondering what it would be like. i was in a bad place at two points in my life and felt it was the right thing to do both times it was easy to do and i wouldve been successful if someone hadnt intervened. it was NOT a cry for help but i am glad most days now that i didnt.

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by bipolar
it was NOT a cry for help but i am glad most days now that i didnt.

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Me too

Personally (and if I get flamed for this then so be it) I think that's it's more courageous to see your problems through than to end things. Yes, I've been depressed before and a few times I've thought 'If I didn't have these children.....' but I *do* have the children and I do have people who care about me and I couldn't bear the thought of them being left to pick up the pieces.

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by Teresa
(quotes)
Me too

Personally (and if I get flamed for this then so be it) I think that's it's more courageous to see your problems through than to end things.

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True.

I tried once, i was even in a coma for a while. It scared the sh... Begises out of me. I dont think i'd ever do it again because it wasnt until i woke up i realised what i'd really done. I was too low and too young to comprihend.

Mother screamed at me, sister cried. the only sane one was my niece (9 mths old) and oddly enough, me!

Even now (7 years later), if mother feels she's been to hard on me and i go out and am late back, say from shopping, even fractionally late, she'd worried sick.

it's easy to do in the right mindset, but it's hell on families.