I can't believe it's been 6 months already. I still shudder when I see the images on TV and reading about peoples personal tragedies brings a tear to my eye. I'll never forget the day it happened 'cos it was my little boys first day at "big school" and I remember sitting outside waiting for him, all excited to hear how his first day went when the news started breaking on the radio and people were phoning me. I was so scared that there was gonna be a war and my baby was just starting out in life.

I'm thinking about it a lot more just recently 'cos I'm due to fly to America on American Airlines next week and I know there have been hundreds of flights since but I can't help but worry. I'm not the best of flyers anyway.

I think the laser beams will look fantastic and I'm sure it will be a very emotional time when they switch them on. I think I'll stay up late and watch it live on Sky news.

My thoughts:

Bush crying at the deaths of 8 American servicemen but not mourning the thousands of Afghan civilians killed as a result of the American bombing campaign.

The request for 25,000 British troops as part of a pre-emptive strike agains Iraq, not an act of defence or retaliation but one of aggression.

Sharon's 'war against terrorism' in Israel (170 people dead in the first 11 days of this month) ... action only possible because America yielded the moral high ground when the first bombs dropped.

The drawing up of a new protocol for the use of Nuclear Weapons for use against Russia, China, Iraq, North Korea, Syria, Iran and Libya (plus possibly an Arab/Israeli conflict).

The speed with which life in the West returned to normal and that we stopped thinking about what might have caused the twin towers disaster in the first place.

That live and let live has once more been replaced by an eye for an eye.

That thousands of people died for nothing except to be food for Bush's warmongering nature.

The status of the United Nations, set up to strive for peace and the maintenance of and adherence to International law, when the most powerful state on Earth only listens when it wants to.

The potential to create a new generation of Arab martyrs.

My thoughts - What has anyone learnt?

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by Incandenza

My thoughts - What has anyone learnt?

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It must be comforting for you to know that thousands of people are willing to die in order to protect you from future terrorist attacks and fight for democracy.

I know you'll come back with yet more rhetoric, so I look forward to it.

i dunno hat to say really except i'm still scared and i think things will get a lot worse. ok i guess maybe trying to get bin laden was sort of the answer or they'd think they cou,d aget away with that sort of stuff but whatever happens i jsut think its gonna be bad.

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by Red
They intend to celebrate their 'bouncing back' with two Twin Towers of light, giant laser beams that will shine into the sky where the heart of New York once stood...
So, what are your thoughts today?

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That I never realised they used bouncing bombs in Afghanistan.

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by Whistler
(quotes)

It must be comforting for you to know that thousands of people are willing to die in order to protect you from future terrorist attacks and fight for democracy.

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Not sure which thousands you are referring to...

The thousands of Americans in New York were innocent victims, neither fighting for democracy nor willing to die for a cause.

The thousands of Afghan civilians were innocent victims who died because the American strategy in its battle against 'terrorism' was/is to minimise the number of deaths of American troops (the only people who fit your description) in any way possible including increasing the likely level of collateral damage to non-American civilians.

The American intention regarding Iraq is to run a campaign on lines similar to Desert Storm where the bulk of western casualities were victims of friendly fire.

The revisiting and revision of American protocol for the acceptable use of nuclear weapons also does not leave me feeling grateful for their protective impulses.

NB - As an aside, surely rhetoric is merely the means by which an argument is constructed or language is used to express an idea or achieve a desired effect?

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by Incandenza
(quotes)

Not sure which thousands you are referring to...

The thousands of Americans in New York were innocent victims, neither fighting for democracy nor willing to die for a cause.

The thousands of Afghan civilians were innocent victims who died because the American strategy in its battle against 'terrorism' was/is to minimise the number of deaths of American troops (the only people who fit your description) in any way possible including increasing the likely level of collateral damage to non-American civilians.

The American intention regarding Iraq is to run a campaign on lines similar to Desert Storm where the bulk of western casualities were victims of friendly fire.

The revisiting and revision of American protocol for the acceptable use of nuclear weapons also does not leave me feeling grateful for their protective impulses.

NB - As an aside, surely rhetoric is merely the means by which an argument is constructed or language is used to express an idea or achieve a desired effect?

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I think I proved my point

My thoughts?

Well they are with everyone be they Afghan,American or any other nation .

Lets all hope and pray that one day there will be an end to such things, where we can all just learn to live together no matter whom we worship/believe in.

I think Sange has pretty much summed up my thoughts too

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by Whistler
I think I proved my point

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Which was? That Inc will take the trouble to attempt to back up his arguments with facts? Well done.

Thoughts..

The bottom line for me is that whatever happened following, my hope was that it would be in the cause of furthering the interests of peace throughout the world, of showing that the western world understands what it means to be civilised, even though others may not.
However my fear that precisely the opposite would happen has, for the most part, come horribly true, and for me that means the terrorists have won.

I think most people know someone who lost someone six months ago, whether in person or a friend off the internet. It just goes to show how small this planet really is with all 6 billion of us on it.

I have varied opinions on the whole trade centre/middle east/terrorist/bush stuff.

I've seen threads on other sites with titles such as "No-one has the guts to use a nuke against the USA" which simply demonstrates the stupidity of the individual who started that thread.

I've seen other threads that were hundreds of posts long, each poster just placing a single "" icon before clicking enter which served to demonstrate the unity people can feel even seperated by hundreds of miles.


But I have to agree with Inc on this really

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by Incandenza

The speed with which life in the West returned to normal and that we stopped thinking about what might have caused the twin towers disaster in the first place.


My thoughts - What has anyone learnt?

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I've not seen much evidence that America now realises that it's its own foriegn poilicy over the years that seemingly got it into this fine mess. More worryingly it seems as if Bush is going to try the "if at first you don't succeed" approach to his actions in the sandier areas of the world.

Still, a war's good for the economy, and a large ammount of Bush's campaign contributions did come from so called "defence" contractors


(Edited by MonSTeR 11/03/2002 13:42)

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by Incandenza
The drawing up of a new protocol for the use of Nuclear Weapons for use against Russia, China, Iraq, North Korea, Syria, Iran and Libya (plus possibly an Arab/Israeli conflict).

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In truth though, these sorts of plans and models are being drawn up all the time, I think it's more a convenient leakage that brings this to light now.

(Edited by MonSTeR 11/03/2002 13:52)

I think I'd have to agree with Inc's appraisal of events since 11 Sept...I can't help feeling that the so called defence of democracy underway is actually a defence of democracy for the few (i.e. us - the west) and using undemocratic means to achieve this end (i.e. - WAR) really signifies the death of democracy thus bringing about the exact situation our governments are trying to avoid (or so their vague rhetoric will tell us.)
Obvioulsly I don't expect Dubya to become a totalitarian and ban elections and opposition parties but I do see on a daily basis worrying signs of the undemocratic measures Bush's government is using to supress anyone or thing it deems fit and flaunting international law to do so (camp x-ray anyone?)
How effective can international laws and conventions be if the only world superpower left in existence ignores them when it suits their fancy - who is left to defend the world against their tyrrany?

Again, my thoughts are with the people who have had to suffer the consequences of the tradegy and hope and pray that one day we will live in peace.

I don't believe life in the West has returned to normal in the slightest. Life will not return to 'normal' for the current generation of American citizens for a very long time, if indeed ever. People in Ireland are used to this kind of atrocity. People in other parts of the world are too, the Middle East, Europe (it doesn't make it easier to bear, it just 'keeps happening').

American isn't/wasn't used to it. It simply didn't happen in America. America got complacent. America suffered. America still suffers, every day, both emotionally and financially. The fears are there with them all the time now, as they are with the rest of the world.

And I very much doubt they have they stopped thinking about what might have caused this disaster. No-one with a heart and soul anywhere in the world could. I know I never have and it still frightens me to this day what more *could* have happened. Could still happen.

I do agree that their Presidents methods of trying to resolve the conflicts are wrong. Screaming 'War'. More innocent people continuing to die.

But it is simply because they wish for their lives to be 'normal' again that they feel they have to do this.

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by MonSTeR
(quotes)I think it's more a convenient leakage that brings this to light now

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Granted, but we can't ever, I believe, underestimate the power of effective spin-doctoring, if only because when it's truly affective, we aren't even aware of it. Whether it be selective snaps from Camp X-Ray, or spotlights on select aspects of foreign policy, the Bush admin seem to get their rocks off stirring up the international community. It isn't big and it isn't clever, Donald...

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by Red

And I very much doubt they have they stopped thinking about what might have caused this disaster. No-one with a heart and soul anywhere in the world could. I know I never have and it still frightens me to this day what more *could* have happened. Could still happen.

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From what I've read, I'm very dissappointed to say that some Americans, those vocal on the subject, really believe that their county is an innocent victim and have no idea why their country was attacked, especially as all they're trying to do overseas is give people a chance at the American way of life, (whether the countries current government likes it or not).

Just because someone is bigger thatn someone else, should it give them the "right" as well as the ability to control the actions of others.

In some ways it seems as if the USA has acted as a Global dictator founded on domestic democracy.




(Edited by MonSTeR 11/03/2002 14:57)

Not sure why you quoted me there, Mon. My point was that they haven't stopped thinking about it, which they were practically accused of earlier in the thread.

The fact that they are as vocal as they are, whatever their opinions, means it is never far from the front of their minds.

I was trying to say (not very well) that a many of the one's whose opinions I have read, have stopped thinking about it.

They reached their conclusions, that there was NO reason that they were attacked and then carried on with the "crusade"