Chambler, your post was interesting to read, and I appreciate the discussion. But I have to say, I disagree with most of what you wrote. We just don't have the same view on these things. As Byron said, I've also had bad experiences with people of other races and ethnic groups. I blame the individuals who did it, and try not to generalize to the whole group. I'm not condemming you for thinking the way you do. I don't know you and I haven't had your experiences. But, from my own point of view, I strongly disagree.

I also think we have to be careful about assessing the violence and such that went on in New Orleans during the first couple of days. I'm sure there was some lawlessness, but possibly not as much as some media lead us to believe. I think some of it has grown into urban myth at this point. But again, I don't know becasue I wasn't there. I'm eager for hearings to start so there can be an investigation and people who were actually there can tell their own stories. I'm also going to see if I can get the New Orleans Times-Picayune online (Don't know if you can. Never tried.) That's the local paper and they're still publishing from the state capital, Baton Rouge, which is nearby. They're closer to the front lines and might have some more insight on what's actually occurring.

Alan, where do you find this stuff? It constantly amazes (and amuses) me. So the Yakuza did it, huh? Well, I see by the weather reports here that they've just whipped up another hurricane that's churning off the east coast of the U.S. right now. They're every efficient.

Lizzieslayer, I'm not sure what's going on with the aid. I don't think the U.S. government itself is asking for or accepting aid. I believe some government officials have asked for aid to go to private charities like the American Red Cross and the Salvation Army. At least that's my understanding. I could be wrong, because I haven't looked into it. My personal opinion is that U.S. should accept help from doctors, nurses, and other people who are useful in situations like this. I don't think the U.S. government should solicit money. That seems wrong. Should we accept it if it's offered? I don't know. My gut reaction is that we should pay for and clean up our own mess here--especially if we can afford to do it. But again, I haven't given it much thought.

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by Sandia
As Byron said, I've also had bad experiences with people of other races and ethnic groups. I blame the individuals who did it, and try not to generalize to the whole group. I'm not condemming you for thinking the way you do. I don't know you and I haven't had your experiences. But, from my own point of view, I strongly disagree.

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Ooh we certainly don't have to agree on everything, would make for a very boring discussion But don't get me wrong here though, I blame the individuals who did it and I don't blame a whole ethnic group for it at all. Might not have expressed myself very well and I think you are mising some background information. In a nearby town an organized group of ethnic youths had been causing problems, including robbery, drugdealing, driving people of the road / damage new cars by driving into them etc. They were at the peak of their activity around the time this happened to me. I only found out about this after I talked to a few mates of mine who live there that this kind of thing had been going on. To me this means the perceived risk is higher when at 2am I try to overtake a couple of youth of that ethnic group in a shabby car with huge dents which drives irregularly. Do I start yelling at them, making rude hand signals because "they" were responsible for what happened to me, of course not, they aren't responsible for the actions of others. I do, however, make sure that I have some additional space / speed so that if they try anything they can't drive me off the road. If you know a group of youths is actively seeking out trouble like this, is it generalizing an ethnic group to be a little bit more careful?

You can't tell me that if for 3 weeks a serial rapist has been active in an area fitting a certain description women aren't more careful when walking alone at dusk and run into someone fitting that description? If the rapist would be from an ethnic minority does this mean that all women are generalize the whole group if they walk home just that little bit quicker to avoid this person (although he might very well not be the rapist)?

But back to the subject at hand. Thought the weather machine theory was very funny However if you use the weather machine as a weapon why not pick a more high profile target

25 Mind-Numbingly Stupid Quotes About Hurricane Katrina And Its Aftermath

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Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA), Sept. 6, 2005
I mean, you have people who don't heed those warnings and then put people at risk as a result of not heeding those warnings. There may be a need to look at tougher penalties on those who decide to ride it out and understand that there are consequences to not leaving.

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Extraugly.com was right; "Santorum: Latin for a**ehole"...

And yep, the Babs Bush quote is right up there at number 2, but George has the top spot - surprise, surprise!

(Edited by Alan 10/09/2005 22:51)

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by Alan
And yep, the Laura Bush quote is right up there at number 2, but hubby George has the top spot - surprise, surprise!

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It's Barabara Bush, not Laura.

Oops, my bad!

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3) "It makes no sense to spend billions of dollars to rebuild a city that's seven feet under sea level....It looks like a lot of that place could be bulldozed." –House Speaker Dennis Hastert

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He might have a point there.

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by Byron
He might have a point there.

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Uhmm not really...... Might just be because I'm Dutch and I live in a country thats mostly under sea level..... Just make sure you keep the water out and it can be a lovely place to live

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by Chambler
(quotes)
Just make sure you keep the water out and it can be a lovely place to live

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I think you guys are rather better at that.

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by Byron
(quotes)
He might have a point there.

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No, I think we HAVE to rebuild New Orleans. It's just too important--historically, culturally. It's a unique city within a unique cultural region. I can't even conceive of not saving it. Maybe if this was Houston, I wouldn't feel so strongly. But New Orleans? I'd support spending whatever they have to spend to bring it back and build a better flood control system. It can certainly be done.

And Chambler, I've been watching some news reports on the flood control systems the Netherlands has built across the borderland with the North Sea. Wow!! I'm just so impressed. They'd never need anything so elaborate for New Orleans. But the Netherlands really knows how to do flood control.

This comment had me shaking my head in disbelief and angry as hell:

We finally cleaned up public housing in New Orleans. We couldn't do it, but God did. – Rep. Richard Baker (R-LA) to lobbyists, as quoted in the Wall Street Journal.

And the story continues....
Full Story
President George W Bush has promised the US government will do and spend whatever it takes to rebuild the hurricane-hit Gulf Coast. So I guess thats positive. However the horrors that people must have gone through also become more clear

Full story
Althought the source story comes from a paper I wouldn't even use to line the cage of the guinea pig with.... it did get picked up by international media.... so here it is on T21

Doctors working in hurricane-ravaged New Orleans 'killed' critically ill patients rather than leaving them to die in agony as they evacuated hospitals. And as euthanasia is illegal in Louisiana I image religious conservatives will be having a field day anytime soon (seeing how they acted earlier this year upon a woman who had been in coma for many year....). In my eyes the doctors did whatever they could and tried to save as many lives with the limited resources they had.... whats wrong with that? Or maybe a better question would be "what else were they supposed to do?" seeing what the alternatives were for these people.... But than again I have no moral objections to euthanasia in the first place.