original post
First titled "Goddamn Atheists!"
Atheists are anti-American, says a survery by the University of Minnesota. Apparently "Americans rate atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in 'sharing their vision of American society'." Seems diversity is fine so long as you have shared "core values", and one of those is religious belief.
Strangest of all, Atheism's associated with an "array of moral indiscretions ranging from criminal behavior to rampant materialism". Rampant materialism?! Leaving aside the obvious irony of mainstream America criticising anyone for being mall whores, most Atheists I've met are fair-trade ethically sourced mung-bean types whose criminal behavior extends to a cheeky spliff after the red wine's run out.
Still, depressing as it is, good to see more evidence of the religious drawing battlelines with non-believers. About time Atheists and free-thinkers follow Richard Dawkins' fine example, end their silence, and vigorously attack the dangerous folly of religious belief in all its forms.
(Edited by Byron 21/04/2006 00:00)
later edit
I realise the last paragraph was aggressively worded and apologise for any needless offence caused. A less crusading summary of my position would be:- The old Liberal convention that you shouldn't criticise or promote religion in public has broken down; but we shouldn't return to it. I see why it came about, but changes to society mean those reasons no longer apply, and its insistence on treating religious faith as a private matter outside the scope of public comment is unrealistic; and unfair, both to believers wanting to publicise a faith and non-believers wanting to criticise it.
I think you have to look at the GC forum and ask yourself, how many political threads can you see?
by lizzieslayer
Honestly the odd political thread is great, but it generally seems a great deal of them are posted at the moment.
Posted: 11:01 Apr 15 2006 See it's just this sort of snide attitude that instigates a lot of the trouble here.
by The_Host
(quotes)I think you have to look at the GC forum and ask yourself, how many political threads can you see?
But managed to resist, oh wait a minute...
by MonSTeRI think you have to look at this type of post and ask yourself, what is it that's driving folks away from the site?
Posted: 13:02 Apr 15 2006 I'd like to think you were being ironic. Please tell me you are.
by MonSTeR
(quotes)
See it's just this sort of snide attitude that instigates a lot of the trouble here.
Posted: 14:14 Apr 15 2006 Posted: 19:21 Apr 15 2006 And how many have there been posted? It's a General Chat forum not a fight/politics forum.
by The_Host
(quotes)I think you have to look at the GC forum and ask yourself, how many political threads can you see?
Posted: 23:46 Apr 16 2006 Posted: 01:29 Apr 17 2006 One of the many reasons I enjoy debate on T21. Just about every other site I vist descends into crude anti-Americanism or (if there's high US contingent) vicious factionalism when US politics comes up. Here we have measured opinions courtesy of yourself and Diandra, and I often learn a lot from reading them.
by Sandia
And when the discussion involves the US, sometimes I can bring something to the discussion that maybe other people don't know.
Posted: 04:29 Apr 17 2006 You're right, current affairs are within GC's remit, but it's not a politics forum (fight forum's a seperate issue
by lizzieslayer
(quotes)
And how many have there been posted? It's a General Chat forum not a fight/politics forum.
). However there are only ever one or two politics threads on the front page, and normally they don't have a fraction of 80-odd posts, so I don't feel they're close to taking over. Usually there's far more fun threads, and so long as there can be (cooled down and, just maybe, good humoured) discussion about more serious matters from time to time, that's just the way it should be.
Posted: 04:36 Apr 17 2006 Posted: 07:57 Apr 17 2006 I believe the lack of recent updates was due in part to staff sickness (yes, even more so than usual
by Kneon Light
Another thing that has stopped me coming is the lack of updates on the "conventions and events" subforum. This is one of the forums I check the most but when certain events do not even have threads (eg London expo 2006, Starfury Serenity 3) it becomes easier to check orgaizers websites rather than this subforum. I appreciate the updates on events such as collectormania but is there a reason only certain events are reported on?
). However, you're right in that there has been a shift in reporting from Starfury events to Collectormania. As far as I know the main reason for this is that a number of core members of the forum have recently shifted from attending Starfury cons and instead have become considerably more active for Showmasters'. Not to say that members aren't attending the other cons any more (as if..), but they're doing so in smaller groups. Posted: 10:53 Apr 17 2006 As Byron said, the ratio of political to 'fun' threads has always been about the same, and I agree. And as Wobag said, the political threads stand out more, especially when they attract the wrath of, as has been mentioned before, the inverse snobs.
by lizzieslayer
(quotes)
And how many have there been posted? It's a General Chat forum not a fight/politics forum.
But politics was there from the beginning, and I think that an arbitrary decision that it should not be tolerated, and sometimes actively derided, was one of those moderating errors. 
), I won't have a hissy fit if anyone chooses to ignore the political threads, although I will regret the lack of their contribution. If T21 is found to be lacking, though, I really don't think politics is the reason for it, and everyone has to ask themselves what they're doing to keep reaching for that rainbow. The convention details would surely have been covered if someone had created an anticipatory thread, as used to happen... Posted: 10:59 Apr 17 2006 First of all, I'd like to apologise unreservedly for calling faith a "dangerous folly" people should "vigorously attack". The comment was in anticipation of posters who'd disrupt the thread however it was phrased, but that doesn't excuse it, it was crass and unwelcoming, and I'm sorry.
by Kneon Light
There are a couple of reasons for this. The main one of which is the lack of respect some people have for people's religious beliefs. As a Christian I got fed up with thread after thread critizising christianity/religion etc. I didnt feel welcome so stopped coming.
Posted: 12:38 Apr 17 2006 Well seeing as I'm one of the most frequent C&E posters, I should tell you that I've never been asked to update any of the events and I only do so with the Showmaster related events (Collectormania, LFCC and Autographica) because I attend them and work for the organisers. I do it as a publicity favour for SM and to keep my T21 friends updated on the guest announcements.
by Kneon Light
Another thing that has stopped me coming is the lack of updates on the "conventions and events" subforum. This is one of the forums I check the most but when certain events do not even have threads (eg London expo 2006, Starfury Serenity 3) it becomes easier to check orgaizers websites rather than this subforum. I appreciate the updates on events such as collectormania but is there a reason only certain events are reported on?
Posted: 13:47 Apr 17 2006 Totally hijacking this thread for a moment, but are the Starfury events as popular as Showmaster, then or, a bit like T21, slightly out of favour? Seems to me they'd be doing each other a mutual favour if someone from Starfury could be encouraged to post updates on T21, or Tangent21 was represented in some way at these events. The latter is probably a bit ambitious, but what's wrong with ambition..?
by Yvonne
(quotes)
I don't update on Starfury events because I don't go to them anymore, the same goes for Expo (I've never been to a single one) and Memorabilia (I only went to the last one to help promo Showmasters). My own contribution to that section of the site is voluntary and therefore I only update the threads I have a personal interest in.
I know what you mean though, once upon a time you'd find the most obscure events advertised in there (updated by people other than myself), but that just doesn't happen anymore.
Posted: 14:59 Apr 17 2006 
Posted: 17:10 Apr 17 2006 To tell you the truth, I have no idea. My own personal preferences have been coloured by the fact that I think Sean Harry is a money-grabbing rip-off merchant (and a bit of a creep) and I tired of seeing the same 8 guests over and over again*. I got involved with the Showmasters organisers back in October 04 and I've worked at all of their events (apart from 2) since then.
by The_Host
Totally hijacking this thread for a moment, but are the Starfury events as popular as Showmaster, then or, a bit like T21, slightly out of favour? Seems to me they'd be doing each other a mutual favour if someone from Starfury could be encouraged to post updates on T21, or Tangent21 was represented in some way at these events. The latter is probably a bit ambitious, but what's wrong with ambition..?
Posted: 18:20 Apr 17 2006
by Yvonne
I think Sean Harry is a money-grabbing rip-off merchant (and a bit of a creep)
I share these opinions
by Yvonne
*these are my own opinions and are not necessarily shared by T21, it's staff or it's members.
Posted: 18:39 Apr 17 2006 Again, that seems awfully snide to me. Maybe your natural style of communication just comes across badly on the net, I don't know, maybe it's just me. But, I'd maintain that the average Joe who read your previous post would have found the tone a little contemptuous, a little derogatory.
by The_Host
I'd like to think you were being ironic. Please tell me you are.
Or is it when posts have hint of feigned innocence after the fact? Again, maybe you're not able to convey accurately exactly what you'd like to? Or maybe you like the room for interpretation that you leave? Or maybe I am wrong, you are being perfectly nice but mean and suspicious folks like me make you out to be a bad guy.
by The_Host
Otherwise, it's that kind of attitude, the willingness to assume that a perfectly honest question has to be 'snide', that causes a lot of the trouble round here.
I didn’t look, it doesn’t bother me.
by The_Host
How many political threads do you see on the front page of GC? I see this one, and one about Berlusconi.
Yes. Or at least, don't question it in a manner that has any chance of being taken as patronising or superior with subtle hints of inverse-inverse snobbery.
by The_Host
Should I just let an observation with very little substance go unquestioned?
Friendly ones, encouraging ones, enlightening ones, not ones that leave members feeling cold, patronised, excluded and dismissed. Mainly I’d like to see inclusive posting not threads about letting the pseudo-intellectually superior debate in peace.
by The_Host
What kind of posts would you like to see?
Posted: 21:08 Apr 18 2006 I'm with you on wanting inclusive threads over a hacks' ghetto any day; but language like "threads [are] about letting the pseudo-intellectually superior debate in peace" is itself unfriendly, unenlightening, and plays a big part in making them exclusive.
by MonSTeR
["What kind of posts would you like to see?"] Friendly ones, encouraging ones, enlightening ones, not ones that leave members feeling cold, patronised, excluded and dismissed. Mainly I’d like to see inclusive posting not threads about letting the pseudo-intellectually superior debate in peace.
Posted: 00:36 Apr 19 2006 
Post a Reply
Back to the Forum
