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by Samanfur
But compared to the arrogance and incompetence levels of Clarke and Patricia Hewitt, I don't see why someone who's been involved in something as comparatively minor as an extra-maritial affair should be thrown to the wolves as the fall guy.

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*cough*Clinton*cough*

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by Samanfur
Reshuffling the same tired old faces in a game of musical chairs around the Cabinet table isn't even rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic - if you tie enough of those together, you can at least construct some sort of rudimentary raft.

What Blair's doing is rearranging the table napkins, and not even noticing that he's the iceberg in the first place.

(Bitter Lib Dem? Who? Me?)

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Top points for a creative, funny and spot-on analogy. If John Reid is all Blair's got left for one of the three great offices of state, you know the chap's in trouble.

I didn't actually have any Lib Dem candidates standing round here: only other choice was the Colonel Blimps of Ukip. (And I support leaving the EU as well, but darned if I'm voting for a party even the Tangerine One left in disgust. ) I voted Lib Dem in the General Election (allowing me the satisfaction of playing a tiny part in giving the Cambridge Labour MP the heave-ho) and will probably vote for them again. Can'nae argue with Emperor Ming!

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by Sydney
... the best news was that despite some very active campaigning the BNP didn't win any seats.

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Better luck than us poor blighters up Barking and Dagenham way: the BNP seized 11 of the 13 seats they fought. They've played into fears of immigration with a toxic mix of carefully presented figures and other tactics the libel laws stop me posting here, and depressingly, other parties have joined in the anti-immigration bandwaggon instead of challenging them.

Still, BNP councilors have a record of being useless in power. Very good at firey rhetoric; less so with the daily grind of council business. Hopefully we'll be waving goodbye to Griffin's boys before too long.

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by Byron
Hopefully we'll be waving goodbye to Griffin's boys before too long.

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One can only hope it's at a Viking-style funeral...

Nah, Vahalla is the *last* place those guys are heading for.

Yeah, but don't fallen warriors in Valhalla engage in combat every day? They've got to have someone to kill over and over again for eternity, for pete's sake!

Well true enough, but do brave warriors and other honoured dead really deserve eternity with the shit of the ward? Those chaps are partial about who they clean off their axe y'know!

What about Norse Hel (not a typo) instead? A frozen wasteland for people who died "ingloriously" and broke their oaths. (Hey, that's appropriate!)

To add a quote from Wikipedia: "Hel is said to be a hall with a roof woven from the spines of serpents which drip poison down onto those who wade in the rivers of blood below. The people who dwell in the halls are given nothing but goat's urine to quench their thirst."

Now that gets my vote.

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by Samanfur
Granted, his mistress was a civil servant, so if it turns out that she's been benefitting from any of the resources that he's been supplied with by taxpayers' money whilst he's been publicly takinhg her around state occasions, that's another matter.

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its already been demonstrated that she has been on the receiving end of ministerial perks, which means its an abuse of his position, which means hes on shaky grounds.
also the fact that several liasons took place while in the office means that, rather than trying to run the country, he was off shagging - im not mitherd what people do in their own time, but when theyre on the clock, they should be working.

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by SamanfurBut compared to the arrogance and incompetence levels of Clarke and Patricia Hewitt, I don't see why someone who's been involved in something as comparatively minor as an extra-maritial affair should be thrown to the wolves as the fall guy.

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prescott is widely regarded as something of a joke - like boris johnson for the conservatives, only more so.
except that this joke isnt funny - lets face it, im not of fan of blair, but i just keep my fingers crossed that nothing ever happens to him, because i dont want that useless lump of lard prescott to get the keys to tonys private bog - he'd make enough of a mess of that, but running the country? **horror**
hes quite frankly the most incompetant minister ive ever seen, and quite frankly should have never been gicven any job in goverment.
not to mention that he should have done time for an assault on a member of the public a few years back.

Now I might agree about Two Jags abusing ministerial perks, but c'mon, jail for the egging? Anyone with a mullet that extreme deserves what they get.

See what I mean:-



(Edited by Byron 05/05/2006 19:56)

ah! unfortunatley I spoke to soon about the BNP - they didn't get in, but two England First reprsentatives were voted in in two Blackburn wards. You'll understand how disgustingly far right this party is when I say that I'd rather have had the BNP.

This party want to stop immigration completely (well for non-whites and non-europeans anyway); ban interacial marriages; make gay bars, websites and community groups illegal and allow only white players on the England Football team

The message that I'm getting from the local press is that they've manage a big chunk of teh vote largely by misleading the public and implying that their stance was left of the BNP when their members would be quite at home in Nazi Germany.

Alan - my ward now is Marsh House, but I moved back home to late to have my entry on the electoral roll changed so I voted in Sunnyhurst

(Edited by Sydney 05/05/2006 19:44)

From the EFP manifesto: "The EFP believe that the multi-racial experiment is a disaster for the stability and social well-being of our country, and that the continuous liberal policies of endorsing and positively embracing this phenomenon are at the expense and suppression of the indigenous population as a whole."

Yep, sounds like a BNP clone alright. (Except, like they keep reminding me, they're for England not Britain.

(Edited by Byron 05/05/2006 22:25)

That's them. But I have to say that I question the wisdom of posting a direct link to their racist, homophobic garbage on a family friendly site

Well it was just so people could see for themselves, but if the link's a problem, no reason it can't be found via google.

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by Byron
Don't know if this is the same everywhere, but everyone got three votes in my ward.

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Thought you were in Cambridge these days? The only wards that should have all (each ward has three councillors) councillors standing for election is London, where the position is for 1 year. In the rest of the country most councillors sit for four years, so one year in four there usually isn't a local election held. So not all of the country would have been voting in these elections.

Personally, and unsurprisingly, I voted Labour. Unfortunately we lost. And now face the likelihood of losing majority control of the council next year. This is bad news. Both the Tories and Lib Dems have shown no desire to keep publicly owned land (parks and the like) and don't believe in helping schools that are in trouble areas. In fact, the Lib Dems don't seem to have any local policies at all and have campaigned on a mix of National policies and mud slinging. Can't see that anyone has voted for them other than as a protest vote against the Blair government in these elections. Which is a pity. Especially as they won in my ward.

It's all well and good giving the government the proverbial bloody nose, but local councils actually play a large part in our every day lives, from planning applications (and liquor licences now) to education to your council tax bill, who gets elected matters.

Which brings me to another point. Roughly 40% of the electorate voted in Reading. Which is quite high for local elections. But how can we be satisfied with less than half the population voting? This is hardly a sign of a healthy democracy. So, to those who don't vote, a question. If you are not happy with the candidates available, why not spoil your ballot paper instead of not voting. Not voting makes the establishment think you don't care either way. So they can carry on being useless. Spoiling ballot papers does worry politicians, because at the count you see what was written on them. Two things are being talked about amongst local politicians - The declining Labour vote due to the national government, and the increase in spoilt ballots with BNP written on them. Thousands of people didn't vote, and less than 10 wrote BNP on their ballot.

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by Byron
Absolute power corrupts absolutely ...

... And petty power corrupts out of all proportion.

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Always preferred Frank Herbert's verion:

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in Chapterhouse Dune
"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted."
"Power attracts the corruptible. Suspect all who seek it."
"Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible."

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Which is all the more reason for all of us to get involved and to do what we can, even if it's nothing more than writing 'Not Good Enough' on a ballot paper.

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by Jayjay
Thought you were in Cambridge these days?

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I travel down south again for elections. My college has far more influence over my life in Cam than the council, and whoever gets in, you can bet unfathomable one-way systems and the plague of cycle paths will continue apace.

Always a Londoner.

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Personally, and unsurprisingly, I voted Labour. ... It's all well and good giving the government the proverbial bloody nose, but local councils actually play a large part in our every day lives ... who gets elected matters.

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Well colour me surprised after your comprehensive anti-Labour post at the general election.

I must confess, it's gone far, far beyond wanting to give the government a bloody nose. I want the Labour Party itself to end. It's inextricably wedded to the idea that some form of benevolent big government is the answer to life's ills, and as a consequence it'll trust government with vast, dangerous powers.

I'm a Liberal. I distrust concentrations of power wherever they are found. All the liqueur licenses in the world wouldn't stop me making that statement. (And for me, that's the ultimate sacrifice.)

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So, to those who don't vote, a question. If you are not happy with the candidates available, why not spoil your ballot paper instead of not voting. Not voting makes the establishment think you don't care either way.

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Not so sure about this. Of course the establishment pass it off as apathy, but there's an increasing sense low turnout reflects alienation not uninterest. Holding power on 22% of the national vote greatly weakens Blair's mandate.

I'm enjoying your discussion about local politics. But I just want to make sure I've got the players right--so I understand what's being discussed. I'm not familiar with all the major parties in Britain, so could someone tell me if this is correct. From what I've read, this is what I'm getting:

England First, far-right, racist extremists.
BNP, far right also, but not quite as extreme.
Tory, garden variety middle-of-the-road conservative.
Labour, garden variety middle-of-the-road liberal.
Liberal Democrat, still moderate, but left of Labour

Have I got it right, or did I screw it up?

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By Sandia
Have I got it right, or did I screw it up?

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Nah, you did good.

Just to elaborate a wee bit ...

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by Sandia
England First, far-right, racist extremists.
BNP, far right also, but not quite as extreme.

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Commonly called far-right, but while their law & order and social polices are on the wrong side of Strom Thurman, they want a Keynesian economy. Bit of a ratbag really. And openly racialist.

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Tory, garden variety middle-of-the-road conservative.

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That's the current direction, but could all change again if Boy Cameron is no longer leader. Generally accept "third way" (explain in a sec) social welfare these days, but the Thatcherite neo-liberal "kill the poor" wing's still lurking under the surface. Also battle between socially conservative and socially liberal; authoritarian & libertarian; and the old aristocratic, paternalist wing's gone to ground but never really left.

Actually, they're sounding like a watered down Republican party now.

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Labour, garden variety middle-of-the-road liberal.

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They ain't no freaking liberals! Hard to pin down. You'll see them called right-wing a lot, but they ain't. They're the Left's dark side. A former socialist party, they support the "third way" (using private capital to run state-owned welfare services) and, due to their socialist "state is the cure" roots, their attitude to civil liberties makes the Patriot Act look downright moderate. Lean towards a neo-liberal economic policy.

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Liberal Democrat, still moderate, but left of Labour

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Yeah, pretty much it. Formed in the 1980s from a merger of the floundering Social Democrat Party & the rump of the old Liberal Party, they're an uneasy alliance, and schizophrenic in their policies. (Support high taxation alongside the free-market.) This Liberal wishes they'd stop trying to be all things to all men, dump the bloody social democrats and get on with being a proper Liberal Party again.

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by Byron
Well colour me surprised after your comprehensive anti-Labour post at the general election.

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Anti-Blair. Anti-Nu Labour. But never anti-Labour. Despite the current leadership and lack of a spine amongst the PLP (sorry, Parliamentary Labour Party), Labour still represents the only party with a serious desire to create a fair and level playing field for all. While I have a lot in common with the Lib Dems on Civil Liberties (ID cards, anti-terrorism et al) and Constitutional Policy (PR), they do not have the commitment to supporting those who through bad luck or birth find themselves in poverty and with little hope for escape. For all its ills, lets not forget this government did bring in the Minimum wage, massively reduce unemployment, improve the standard of income support given to the unemployed, low paid, long term sick and pensioners. Could they have done more? Sure. But they've done more than the other two parties have been willing to support.

Thanks, Byron. The biggest surprise is Labour. Not quite what I thought it was.

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by Sandia
England First, far-right, racist extremists.
BNP, far right also, but not quite as extreme.
Tory, garden variety middle-of-the-road conservative.
Labour, garden variety middle-of-the-road liberal.
Liberal Democrat, still moderate, but left of Labour

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I have a problem with referring to Neo-Nazi or Fascist organizations as far-right, simply because it causes confusion. Lets not forget that Nazi is short for National Socialists. These organizations are opportunists. Populists. They will tell you whatever they think you want to hear. But there real motivation is social repression. They belive in such disgusting notions as 'racial-purity', that people of different skin colour should live in different nations. They considering homosexuality an abomination and that a woman's place is Church, Kitchen, Kindergarten. In the west we have associated left and right with economics (essentially, from the extremes, left is anti-capitalist, right is pro-free market) and these guys don't fit in there. They're just plain evil.

As for the other three, due to the similarity of our electoral systems, British and US parties are very similar in hue. Except we didn't have all that Unamerican hoha about socialism. So ...

Conservatives (nicknamed Tories) - Republicans
Liberal Democrats (Lib Dem for short) - Right Wing Democrats
Labour - Left Wing Democrats (and I think there is also a very small US Labour party, if memory serves me .. it usually doesn't)

Hope That Helps

Guess I should also confuse things by suggesting the Lib Dems are to the left of Labour on Social Freedoms, but to the right of Labour on economics.