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Babelfish to the rescue Teresa, or do you speak fluent french? Be very impressed if you speak the language, cos i'd love to havea second language, but I ddi crap at french in school (and forgot it all the day i left it seems), and don't really have time to do a language class.

She cheated on that one. She can barely speak English properly never mind French

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by Maffrew
i'd love to havea second language, but I ddi crap at french in school (and forgot it all the day i left it seems)

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A second language is pretty overrated...... especially if it's English Also forgot my French as fast as I possibly could. Only thing I can say now as just a few standard phrases and I wouldn't have a clue how to spell them. (most important one.... I don't understand what you are saying, do you speak Dutch...? No? English?) Seeing as the French don't particularly like the English very much starting off with asking if they speak English just doesn't always seem to have the desired effect.

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by Yvonne
She cheated on that one. She can barely speak English properly never mind French

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Piss off

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by Maffrew
Babelfish to the rescue Teresa, or do you speak fluent french?

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Babelfish is crap. Google Translate FTW!

And I was so impressed with Teresa's translation! I'm just totally gullible.

I took French in school, too. Like everyone else, don't remember enough to carry on a complex conversation. I can read simple things, with a dictionary nearby.

Also took Dutch in school. (A big shout out to Chambler.) Not the most useful language to take around these parts, because there haven't been a lot of Dutch speakers around here for about 300 years. But I thought it would be a cool language to learn. I didn't take it long enough to learn a lot. I had to drop it after just one semester because I couldn't fit it into my schedule. So I certainly don't remember much at all--even less than French. But it was fun.

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by Sandia
Also took Dutch in school. (A big shout out to Chambler.) Not the most useful language to take around these parts, because there haven't been a lot of Dutch speakers around here for about 300 years. But I thought it would be a cool language to learn.

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Cool Not many people will try to learn Dutch, not only due to it's limited use in the International market but also because by many it's not considered an actual language but more a throat decease (due to the hard vowels and rolling letters, complex grammar (more exceptions than you can shake a stick at)), although I guess it could come in handy if you want to do a "Holloway" (No not disappear... have some wild party on Aruba).

Stupidest thing they ever did was trade New Amsterdam / New Orange (better known as New York).... if they only knew the problems with immigration / unemployment / crime / drugs they would cause 300+ years later! But I guess it got the English of their backs for a while.

(Edited by Chambler 07/12/2007 00:03)

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by Chambler
(quotes)
Cool Not many people will try to learn Dutch, not only due to it's limited use in the International market but also because by many it's not considered an actual language but more a throat decease (due to the hard vowels and rolling letters, complex grammar (more exceptions than you can shake a stick at)), although I guess it could come in handy if you want to do a "Holloway" (No not disappear... have some wild party on Aruba).

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I was really enthusiastic about it at the time. When I found out Dutch was offered, I was totally jazzed about taking it. Got a friend of mine to take the class too, so we were able to practice together. I never thought it would be practical. I just thought it would be interesting--and it really was. Just wish I had gotten farther with it.

But I was really proud of myself one day after I took it. I was in the bookstore at the United Nations--and that's a place where, as you can imagine, people from all over the world are browsing the shelves. A couple next to me was speaking a foreign language, and I recognized it as Dutch. So I tried to stay close to them for a while so I could see if I understood anything. Not close enough that they thought I was weird or anything. Anyway, I didn't understand much. But I picked up a phrase or two. So I guess I got something out of the class: I am now able to identify and stalk Dutch people on the streets. And you never know when that might come in handy.

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by Chambler
(quotes)
Stupidest thing they ever did was trade New Amsterdam / New Orange (better known as New York).... if they only knew the problems with immigration / unemployment / crime / drugs they would cause 300+ years later! But I guess it got the English of their backs for a while.

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Well, don't want to bring up a sore subject. But the Dutch didn't trade New Netherland and its main settlement, New Amsterdam. The English came and took it.

Both the Dutch and the Swedes were settling in the area that is now New York and New Jersey in the early 1600s. The Swedes were over on the Delaware River and the Dutch were on the Hudson. But the presence of the Swedes irritated the Dutch no end, so the Dutch took a few ships over to the Delaware River and kicked out the Swedes.

The Dutch consolidated their holdings, and things were going well. That is, until a new director general, Willem Kieft, came along and thought it would be a great idea to get rid of all the Indians in the area. Problem is, the Indians didn't want to leave and put up quite a fight. "Kieft's War" went on for a while, with a lot of bloodshed on both sides. But after a few years, the Dutch settlers and the Indians of the area called a truce. And finally things seemed to be calming down nicely. The Dutch settlement was expanding. Trade was good. Everything seemd right with the world. And then, wouldn't you know it--the English showed up.

England already had colonies north of New Netherland, in New England, and south of New Netherland, in Virginia and such. And having the Dutch in New Netherland smack between the English colonies was inconvenient, to say the least. So in 1664, England decided to do something about it. They showed up in the harbor at New Amsterdam with several warships--completely catching the Dutch off guard and unprepared. They basically told the Dutch to surrender the colony or suffer the consequences. They really didn't have to spell out "the consequences." It was pretty clear, what with the big guns on the ships and everything.

Peter Stuyvesant, who was the director general of New Netherland at the time, was in the mood to put up a fight. But unfortunately for him, most of the other colonists in New Amsterdam weren't. They could see the handwriting on the wall. This was a fight they weren't going to win. So they surrendered to the English. Most of Dutch didn't leave the area. They were allowed to stay where they were, keeping their businesses and farms. So the Dutch presence continued in the area, but control of the colony passed to the English--who promptly renamed it New York.

That's probably a lot more than you needed to know. But I like to amuse myself.

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by Sandia
(quotes)
So I guess I got something out of the class: I am now able to identify and stalk Dutch people on the streets. And you never know when that might come in handy.
(quotes)

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i would assume the only time it came in handy would be TParty...
although at the last one, they were busy stalking unsuspecting T21 members in their rooms - not to mention forcing them to go to pubs and drink alkyhawl!!

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by mad
(quotes)

i would assume the only time it came in handy would be TParty...
although at the last one, they were busy stalking unsuspecting T21 members in their rooms - not to mention forcing them to go to pubs and drink alkyhawl!!

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See what I miss by being 3,000 miles away!

Must admit i was impressed with T's translation at first - i thought the only french she knows are kisses and letters *hides*

Sandia you little stalker you Just one thing to keep in mind when stalking Dutch people.... you might not be able to fully understand what they are saying.... they however do know exactly what you are saying That reminds me of a funny little incident a good couple of years back in a McDonalds in London where I was talking Dutch with a mate of mine (we were on a school trip) and some kids behind us in the queue started to throw abusive language our way as they were under the impression we wouldn't be able to understand them..... I must say they did leave pretty hastily after they found out though.

Although I must admit I made a similar mistake myself when on holiday in France. (should have known better seeing as half the population of the Netherlands seemed to spend their holiday in France in those days). Was ordering some drinks after a visit to a nature park and commented on the fact that the girl behind the counter had rather nice looking legs. When she came back with our order she thank me for the nice comment on her legs. (making me turn slightly red although I don't think anyone notice seeing how sun burnt I was by that time) It turned out she was Dutch and working in France over the summer to improve her French.

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by Sandia
That's probably a lot more than you needed to know. But I like to amuse myself.

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How doesn't but actually it's not enough What you said is absolutely true however your post stops in 1664. That is not where the "strife" over New York stops. Although in 1667 in the Treaty of Breda, the Dutch did not press their claims on New Netherland (the area surrounding New Amsterdam), they didn't give it up either, the settlement was after all capture by the English in a time that England and the Dutch Republic were officially at peace. In return for not pressing their claims they received the tiny Island of Run in North Maluku, rich in nutmegs and the guarantee for the factual possession of Suriname, which they captured earlier that year. (politics.... you just got to love it)

The New Amsterdam city was subsequently renamed New York, after the Duke of York (later King James II) — brother of the English King Charles II — who had been granted the lands with the kingly stroke of an armchair pen.

However the story of New Amsterdam doesn't even stop there as in the Third Anglo-Dutch War, the Dutch recaptured New Netherland in August 1673 and installed Anthony Colve as New Netherland's first Governor and the city was renamed "New Orange" (note my reference to it in my earlier post). However after the signing of the Treaty of Westminster in November 1674 the city was relinquished to British and the name reverted to "New York" again. In return Suriname became an official Dutch possession.

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by Mad
i would assume the only time it came in handy would be TParty...
although at the last one, they were busy stalking unsuspecting T21 members in their rooms - not to mention forcing them to go to pubs and drink alkyhawl!!

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I imagine it must have been pure torture

(Edited by Chambler 08/12/2007 13:31)

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by Dangermouse
Must admit i was impressed with T's translation at first - i thought the only french she knows are kisses and letters *hides*

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::snort::

(and ticklers)

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by Chambler
Sandia you little stalker you Just one thing to keep in mind when stalking Dutch people.... you might not be able to fully understand what they are saying.... they however do know exactly what you are saying

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Yeah, I was smart enough to keep my mouth shut and just stick with them as they moved around the bookstore, with me pretending to pick up and read books from nearby shelves as I went. Now that I think of it, it was like one of those cheesey spy films, where the spy pretends to read a magazine while she stands behind a potted plant watching her subject. Although I wasn't wearing a trench coat and dark glasses.

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by Chambler
That reminds me of a funny little incident a good couple of years back in a McDonalds in London where I was talking Dutch with a mate of mine (we were on a school trip) and some kids behind us in the queue started to throw abusive language our way as they were under the impression we wouldn't be able to understand them..... I must say they did leave pretty hastily after they found out though.

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It's so much fun to put people like that in their place. I've never done it myself, but I've seen it done. Pure satisfaction.

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by Chambler
How doesn't but actually it's not enough What you said is absolutely true however your post stops in 1664. That is not where the "strife" over New York stops. Although in 1667 in the Treaty of Breda, the Dutch did not press their claims on New Netherland (the area surrounding New Amsterdam), they didn't give it up either, the settlement was after all capture by the English in a time that England and the Dutch Republic were officially at peace. In return for not pressing their claims they received the tiny Island of Run in North Maluku, rich in nutmegs and the guarantee for the factual possession of Suriname, which they captured earlier that year. (politics.... you just got to love it)

However the story of New Amsterdam doesn't even stop there as in the Third Anglo-Dutch War, the Dutch recaptured New Netherland in August 1673 and installed Anthony Colve as New Netherland's first Governor and the city was renamed "New Orange" (note my reference to it in my earlier post). However after the signing of the Treaty of Westminster in November 1674 the city was relinquished to British and the name reverted to "New York" again. In return Suriname became an official Dutch possession.

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Nice history. I don't think I knew about the 1673-1674 business when it reverted briefly to the Netherlands again.

It's funny though, I'm sure the Netherlands thought it was getting a better deal by keeping Suriname and the island rich in spices. In the end, most of the European powers seemed to value their holdings in the Caribbean or South America much more than they valued the ones in North America.

By the way, just to return briefly to New Amsterdam. The Dutch presence in New York and New Jersey is still evident in the names of some towns in this area (like Voorhees and Gansevoort), areas of New York City (Harlem, Boerem Hill, New Dorp, Bedford-Stuyvesant, just for example), a county in New Jersey (Bergen), streets in New York City (like Amsterdam, Schermerhorn, Van Dam), parks (Van Cortlandt Park is probably second in size only to Central Park in the city), geographic features (lots of streams and straits around here are called kill, and a part of the Hudson River north of New York City is called the Tappan Zee), landmarks in New York (for example, the Dyckman House, a Dutch farmhouse that dates from the 1700s, still sits in northern Manhattan, believe it or not) and New Jersey (I can't tell you how many old Dutch Reformed churches dot the landscape in New Jersey), and on and on. Of course, the English imprint is much bigger. But the Dutch imprint is still there.

Thanks to T for her better use of the Intertubes than I. much appreciated.

I shall allow this thread to carry on it's own tangential way (as it should).

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by Tycho
Thanks to T for her better use of the Intertubes than I. much appreciated.

I shall allow this thread to carry on it's own tangential way (as it should).

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I bet you never thought your initial post would end up on in a history lesson about New York city... Sandia attempting to be a spy... Mad talking about being stalked and having to drink alcohol... and me admitting to being caught out by someone who ended up speaking Dutch... this site works in mysterious ways