I thought the whole ep was great especially the end. Cordelia going upwards and Angel sinking down.

How are the writers gonna get out of this one next season??? It looked like a snooker to me!

Poor Groo never liked him much, but my heart ached for him when he left...

Fred pretending to be a vampire was very cute. Groo was noble and I was sorry to see him leave. That was a list of things I liked about this episode.

I may elaborate on exactly why it's the worst 'Angel' episode of all time at a later date.

Oh, go on. You'll put it much better than me (i don't even try to do coherent reviews), though maybe watching it again might make it better... i dunno

Can I have a try?

Is it anything to do with just how dim Connor/Stephen would have to be, to think that 'Angelus' would leave a fang-marked Holtz for him to find if Evil Dad was trying to make him think Holtz had gone awy?

And what's the deals with Holtz's jugular vein anyway? Shouldn't it spurt a little when punctured by a spike, in just the way that it wouldn't if a hungry vamp was involved?

Can't help wishing Joss was in the box, reflecting on this storyline...

Actually, these are some of the less objectionable things for me.

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by Jango
Is it anything to do with just how dim Connor/Stephen would have to be, to think that 'Angelus' would leave a fang-marked Holtz for him to find if Evil Dad was trying to make him think Holtz had gone awy?

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If he was Angelus, he probably would have left the body for him to find. I don't think it's anything to do with being dim - he'd just lost his father and was thus extremely upset, had Justine encouraging him the whole time, and did actually believe that Angel was evil so probably wasn't paying much attention to what he said except to win his confidence.

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And what's the deals with Holtz's jugular vein anyway? Shouldn't it spurt a little when punctured by a spike, in just the way that it wouldn't if a hungry vamp was involved?

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Yes, it should. However clearly they couldn't get away with showing that - you'll have noticed that in Buffy, the vamps generally have pearly-white teeth just after they've drank. Connor probably isn't too familiar with human anatomy, and so wouldn't know either way..

Thought this was a good episode and season finale.
Liked the way Cordelia ascended and Angel decended.
I hope Lorne is coming back for S4.
Wonder where Wesley's loyalties will lie in S4 hopefully not with Lilah.

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by misskittyfantastic
How are the writers gonna get out of this one next season??? It looked like a snooker to me!

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My iccle (and total unsubstantiated) theory surrounds the Wesley & Lilah thing (ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww ) For someone whos had a thing for Fred and Cordy his pairing with Leyah seems a little far fetched. So i reacon that Wolfram & Hart had surveilance on Angel (They had earlier in the finale so who's to say that they didn't carry on watching) but they decide that seeing as Connor has conviently got Angel out of their way they'll just leave him their and they file the details away for safe keeping. Lilah finds out - tells Wes coz she's either in love or he was really good in bed or something. Angel gets out of bother thanks to Wes yet again.

Lets face it - Fred and Gunn have absoulutely no way of knowing whats happened or even where to start looking once they twig that something is wrong. What with each of them having absolutely no link to the powers that be at all...

Which brings me nicely on to who's gonna replace Cordy on the warnings of fatal danger/smelly demons/apocalypse front? Is she gonna come back as a spectaral being to further torment Angel? Will the powers be transfered to an existing cast member? Or will we have some newbie on the block?

What if Angel stays at the bottom of the sea for the whole season and Spike and Clem (who will have recieved the Visions) come to assist Fred & Gunn...


All in all it looks like next season might shape up to be better that this one

i liked most of this episode. Okay white cordelia rising up was a little cheesy and cliched.

i felt so sorry for groo and I love lorne! i can't believe he left!

cordy has to come back really, shes beent here for the whole of Angel/Buffy..she knows more about Angel than fred or gunn etc.

Wesley's lin to Lilah "are you terribly anxoius to find out?" kinda reminded me of the giles at the end of '2 to go'("i'd like to test that theory." nothing to do wiht the words because obviously they are completely different. It's just Wes eemed very ripper/giles like there.

i have no idea how they are going to get Angel out...it could be something to do with W&H.

A great episode, but its now official - cliffhangers are not good. It really gets on my nerves when people do that, because it makes so much more sense to wrap it up properly. I don't want to have to wait until Janurary next year to see what happens. It is alright to leave things uncertain, but this is too much. Mind you, its not as blatant as smallville which had... to be continued on its 21st episode when there's normally 22.

I know buffy left things abit up in the air with the end of season 5, but really, it would have been a fitting ending to a fantastic season. Angel has taken the cliffhanger too far. I only hope channel 4 decides to show Angel season 3 promptly after season 2 - its finally in a decent timeslot.

I quite liked it but Buffy's finale and Scrubs finale was better!

I can only echo everyone else's disgust. Wesley and LILAH???

So hows Angel going to get out of this one?

And I was kinda bemused by the whole Cordy-Higher-Being thing. Is this really the same snobby-not-very-nice-miss-cheerleader-Cordelia from Sunnydale?

7.5 out of 10

I enjoyed this episdoe to be honest.

Cant wait till next season, I reckon Wesley will save Angel as thats the only way I can see him coming back to the fold, they cant carry on him being in the background.

Sad to see Groo go I liked him he was remarkably cheerful at the worst of times hope hes back next year.

woah that was pretty mad and stuff. and about wesley hes gonna turn bad its obvious but will become good again at the end of next season. but woah it was bloody mad.

RE: Wesley & Lilah.
He's reached rock bottom (and probably Lilah's), now the only way for him is up. Methinks Season 4 with feature Wes's rehabilitation into the team (as well as the whole wet-Angel-in-a-box & Cordy's-an-angel things).
Maybe.

Well, I thought, after giving it some time to sink in, that Buffy's finale was crap.

And Dan, it's not just a question of whether Connor would be too griefstricken to notice, but of whether Holtz would really expect him not to notice such a big flaw in the plan. Did he expect Connor to accept that the 'Prince of Lies' would be so transparently tactless?

And what would Holtz have done id Justine hadn't turned up in such a timely fashion? Spiked himself? Actually, he probably would have....

That being saidm tho, the whole 'I've got vampiric reflexes, but I can't hold onto a mobile phone, let alone operate it' thing is starting to look older than Angel. Shame that Gunn apparently didn't even think to phone Angel ehen Connor ran away last ep. Ack, I can't talk about...

And before she ascended up to wherever she's going?.. why the heck didn't Cordy have a vision?????.... i think it would've been more poignant if she'd been unable to warn anyone because she was ... ummm... ascending....

I've been wondering how Angel could possibly get out of that predicament?.. would it be down to Wesley to save him, thus maybe getting him back into Angel Investigations? (I missed him), or maybe Connor realises that Holtz and Justine played him, and has an attack of conscience and tells Fred and Gunn and therefore can rescue him (highly unlikely) or will Angel-Cordy appear in a hazy type vision like she did to herself in the finale and tell them herself?.. (did that make any sense? )

Got seven months to wait and find out... (or about four if i read the US spoilers )

Um... with everyone wondering how he's gonna get out, here's an idea. HE'S GOT SUPER STRENGTH. If he fought everyday for an hour, it would be absurd if he couldn't break free. Everything buckles adventurly and, when Angel was imprisoned by Gunn, it took a few hours, but he finally busted through the METAL WALL!!!!

Overall I thought it was okay, as good as recent Angel's have been, but nothing special. Not as bigger let down as Buffy, but Angel was never on the same standard. Pretty crap, except I liked the Cordelia thing, a tad TOO sudden, they could have laid possible ground work before. But I liked that part, how she has really grow-up from the spoilt/selfish girl in Buffy.

Hope Cordelia comes back and Wesley, who cares what happens to Angel. Oh and by the way Angel, the boy who you love to remind is "your son!" put you in 'the sea!!!" Ha Ha!!!

I would think that even if angel is strong enough to force the lid off the coffin (and im not sure he is), he could do it at the bottom of the sea, with literally tonnes of water pressure holding it on too

The whole "superstrength" thing is so common amoungst all "superhero" genre formats. The superstrength is only strong enough at a dramatically appropriate time.

If Angel needs to save Cordelia, or something equally important, he'll bust outa there, unless Fred and Gunn turn to Wes to rescue him first

Like the Buffy finale, I couldn't make up my mind whether I liked this or not!

Once again, it was over too quickly - I'd have liked to seen the whole Connor/Steven working his way into Angel's confidence sequence stretched over a couple more episodes. The Cordie ascension was very sudden too.

On the other hand, the story was good, and some of the little dramatic ironies were just too well done!

I suspect both Angel and Cordie will be back, Angel in the first episode of the next season (you can't have "Angel" without its eponymous hero anymore than you can have "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" without a blond butt-kicker ). The Wesley plot was a little unbelivable to me, but it's possible he'll wind up betraying W&H to get back in with the gang...