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I thought he was English-born? 
So is his English accent good, or is his own accent just really bad?
So is his English accent good, or is his own accent just really bad?
Posted: 19:01 Jun 12 2003
Firefly in the UK!
Joss Whedons short lived but much awaited series firefly looks set to air on the UK Scifi channel from May 18th at 7pm.
We'll even get to see some episodes not shown in America!
We'll even get to see some episodes not shown in America!
32 Replies and 9168 Views in Total. [ 1 2 ]
Posted: 19:01 Jun 12 2003 
Sorry to go against the general consensus... but I'm actually enjoying it!
I initially caught an episode (turned out to be ep. 3) whilst channel hopping a few weeks ago, half watched it and though it was pretty awful... but on Sunday I wasn't feeling too good and ended up watching all 6 episodes on the Sci Fi channel back-to-back-catch-up. Now that I've 'tuned in' I realise it is nothing more than a western, and as long as you expect nothing more then that's fine. The stories would work just as well set on a cattle train ploughing the mid-west rather than in space.
I found the episode this evening (where the Captain finds he's married) especially good - well written, well acted and kept me laughing from start to finish. I can't say that about most of what's on telly at the mo...
I initially caught an episode (turned out to be ep. 3) whilst channel hopping a few weeks ago, half watched it and though it was pretty awful... but on Sunday I wasn't feeling too good and ended up watching all 6 episodes on the Sci Fi channel back-to-back-catch-up. Now that I've 'tuned in' I realise it is nothing more than a western, and as long as you expect nothing more then that's fine. The stories would work just as well set on a cattle train ploughing the mid-west rather than in space.
I found the episode this evening (where the Captain finds he's married) especially good - well written, well acted and kept me laughing from start to finish. I can't say that about most of what's on telly at the mo...
Posted: 00:55 Jun 17 2003
I've got to agree with Rally. It was just the one episode I didn't enjoy, which I felt strongly about because I thought it had been so good up to then.
I'm sticking with it.
I'm sticking with it.
Posted: 10:03 Jun 20 2003 
I've seen pretty much all the episodes now (on Sci-Fi and "elsewhere" ), and believe it's a crying shame it got cancelled. Sci-fi has always been, to quote Gene Roddenbery, "a waggon train to the stars", and Firefly wore its origins on its sleve with panace. Weaving a post-US Civil War milieu into a space setting (for "Aliance", read "Union", for the battle of Serenity, read Gettysberg) worked suprisingly well, and the Western feel was balanced just right with more modern technology (they may swagger round with Colt.45 lookalikes on their hips, but they also visit vast floating islands and go up against Aliance jugganaghts). The dialogue was equally clever, weaving the futuristic with the bucolic (and all the Japanese swearing was neat). And surprisingly for an avowed country an' western loather, I loved the theme tune.
Jane's line "I'll be in ma bunk" also gave me one of my biggest belly-laughs this year.
Most importantly, the characterisation and all-round sense of fun were infectious; it was clearly going for a Farscape feel, and it worked. The plots were ever zany and inventive, and the Reapers promised to be a great nemisis that sadly never got a chance to deliver. That this got cacelled while formulaic crap like Enterprise gets yet another bail-out is of course to be expected from US TV.
(Edited by Byron 22/07/2003 17:17)
Jane's line "I'll be in ma bunk" also gave me one of my biggest belly-laughs this year.
Most importantly, the characterisation and all-round sense of fun were infectious; it was clearly going for a Farscape feel, and it worked. The plots were ever zany and inventive, and the Reapers promised to be a great nemisis that sadly never got a chance to deliver. That this got cacelled while formulaic crap like Enterprise gets yet another bail-out is of course to be expected from US TV.
(Edited by Byron 22/07/2003 17:17)
Posted: 17:12 Jul 22 2003 That would presumably the same US TV that brought us:
by Byron
That this got cancelled while formulaic crap like Enterprise gets yet another bail-out is of course to be expected from US TV.
The Sopranos, David Chase's grandiose Shakespearian Mafia drama;
Six Feet Under, American Beauty writer Alan Ball's darkly comic tale of Californian undertakers;
Buffy the Vampire Slayer, (for the two of you who don't know) Joss Whedon's winning combination of teen angst and gothic horror...
...not to mention The Simpsons and Futurama, The West Wing, Fraser, The Shield, Oz, Law and Order and 24.
On the day that British television starts producing anything one tenth as good as any of the above, I'll maybe consider sniping at the US equivalent but until then a little slack has perhaps been earned?
Posted: 17:38 Jul 22 2003
I have to agree with Incandenza on this one. It's not a problem with US TV; just with TV. Genre programming is the red-headed stepchild of the entertainment world, and probably more so over here than in the States. Just look at the BBC's refusal to support their own show, Strange, never mind what they do to their precious US sci-fi imports.
UK TV does respectably enough, but it's a completely different kind of TV from the US. Shorter series, written by one or two people; also, there's less bulk. We produce fewer standouts than the Americans, but then again we also produce fewer painful failures. The BBC may never have made Buffy, but they also never made Beastmaster or Cleopatra 2525. The US doesn't produce better TV; it just produces more TV of which the same proportion is good.
<i>Enterprise</i> gets out of jail free because it's Star Trek, which gives it a kind of hallowed status, despite the decline of the franchise. Also, it may be crap but it's formulaic nature probably acts in its favour: Mainstream viewers know where they are with it, and its anthology lay-out means that you can dip in and out very easy. Plus there's plenty of T&A and shirtless hunks to keep the undemanding punter drooling.
I think it's a crying shame that Firefly got canned just as it was hitting its stride. I enjoyed it from the off - and for the record, I love that theme tune, despite also not being a fan of country - but the later episodes had tightened up and refined the concept so much from the earlier ones. Crying shame.
UK TV does respectably enough, but it's a completely different kind of TV from the US. Shorter series, written by one or two people; also, there's less bulk. We produce fewer standouts than the Americans, but then again we also produce fewer painful failures. The BBC may never have made Buffy, but they also never made Beastmaster or Cleopatra 2525. The US doesn't produce better TV; it just produces more TV of which the same proportion is good.
<i>Enterprise</i> gets out of jail free because it's Star Trek, which gives it a kind of hallowed status, despite the decline of the franchise. Also, it may be crap but it's formulaic nature probably acts in its favour: Mainstream viewers know where they are with it, and its anthology lay-out means that you can dip in and out very easy. Plus there's plenty of T&A and shirtless hunks to keep the undemanding punter drooling.
I think it's a crying shame that Firefly got canned just as it was hitting its stride. I enjoyed it from the off - and for the record, I love that theme tune, despite also not being a fan of country - but the later episodes had tightened up and refined the concept so much from the earlier ones. Crying shame.
Posted: 10:11 Jul 23 2003 Instinctively I don't agree entirely with this.
by The Prophet
The US doesn't produce better TV; it just produces more TV of which the same proportion is good.
Or at least I half agree... I have no doubt that American television generates huge amounts of rubbish that we rarely get to see in the UK (although Dark Angel made it
).What I would dispute is that UK television produces any original drama that can compare to the best coming out of America.
Scanning a weeks terrestrial television and ignoring repeats gives us:
Eastenders, Coronation Street, Brookside, Hollyoaks and Emmerdale.
Then we have The Bill, Bad Girls, Spooks, Holby City, The Eustace Bros, Fortysomething and Ultimate Force.
Now admittedly mid-summer is not reknowned for its challenging schedules but even allowing for that it's a pretty sorry list.
BBC1 in one week has only 5.5 hours of new drama (including 2.5 hours of Eastenders). ITV has 10 hours (incl. 2.5 hours of Emmerdale, 2.5 hours of Corrie and 2 hours of the bill). Channel 4's sole contribution is 2 hours of Hollyoaks whilst there is not one piece of new UK drama on BBC2 or Channel 5.
NB - In the same period, there were also new episodes of The West Wing, ER, The Shield, 24 and 6 Feet Under plus Friends, Will and Grace and Scrubs. The only new UK sitcom during the week was a half hour of 'Two Pints of Lager and a Packet of Crisps'.
Posted: 11:29 Jul 23 2003
Well, in part we're not comparing like with like. UK shows are shorter both in running time and series length, and they always have been. Also, you're only looking at terrestrial TV, while a lot of the new drama now goes to the digital channels first (or so it seems to a benighted terrestrial-bound viewer).
UK TV's original drama is usally period costume drama, typically in the form of a series of four-to-six one-hour or hour-and-a-half episodes. We also do crime dramas such as Murder in Mind, Messiah, The Vice and their ilk, running to similar length and often garnering great praise, especially when they have Ken Stott in them.
BBC also have their upcoming Philip Larkin bio thingie, which brings me to the other thing the UK does a lot of: Teleplays. One-off dramas are very popular these days.
Do they compare favourably to the US dramas? I really haven't seen enough of either to say for sure, but certainly the critcal reaction places them much more favourably by comparison than the sitcoms (the US sitcoms have been superior to pretty much everything form the UK since the last season of Black Books finished, and to most things since Season five of Red Dwarf).
Soapwise, we have a completely different style of soap opera from the US, and out of the international cornucopia of soaps, I probably wouldn't watch a thing.
There's also the dramedy, or at least there used to be. I don't know if these days you get much of that anymore, but certainly a couple of years ago the UK ruled the world in shows that were both incredibly funny and morbidly depressing, and which often starred Ken Stott.
Finally, I'd like to put a shout out to the occasional absolute gems that emerge from - usually the BBC's - children's broadcasting. There's some high-quality drama there if you care to look for it, kicking Beastwars into a cocked hat (and the less said about Transformers: Armada the better
).
You may have a point, and it may be that the problem is that economically it's cheaper to buy The Shield than it is to make it.
UK TV's original drama is usally period costume drama, typically in the form of a series of four-to-six one-hour or hour-and-a-half episodes. We also do crime dramas such as Murder in Mind, Messiah, The Vice and their ilk, running to similar length and often garnering great praise, especially when they have Ken Stott in them.
BBC also have their upcoming Philip Larkin bio thingie, which brings me to the other thing the UK does a lot of: Teleplays. One-off dramas are very popular these days.
Do they compare favourably to the US dramas? I really haven't seen enough of either to say for sure, but certainly the critcal reaction places them much more favourably by comparison than the sitcoms (the US sitcoms have been superior to pretty much everything form the UK since the last season of Black Books finished, and to most things since Season five of Red Dwarf).
Soapwise, we have a completely different style of soap opera from the US, and out of the international cornucopia of soaps, I probably wouldn't watch a thing.
There's also the dramedy, or at least there used to be. I don't know if these days you get much of that anymore, but certainly a couple of years ago the UK ruled the world in shows that were both incredibly funny and morbidly depressing, and which often starred Ken Stott.
Finally, I'd like to put a shout out to the occasional absolute gems that emerge from - usually the BBC's - children's broadcasting. There's some high-quality drama there if you care to look for it, kicking Beastwars into a cocked hat (and the less said about Transformers: Armada the better
).You may have a point, and it may be that the problem is that economically it's cheaper to buy The Shield than it is to make it.
Posted: 11:44 Jul 23 2003 It's not so much the content as the working pracise of US TV I dislike. Advertisers having a huge influence over programme content, for exampe.
by Incandenza
That would presumably the same US TV that brought us:
The Sopranos, David Chase's grandiose Shakespearian Mafia drama;
Six Feet Under, American Beauty writer Alan Ball's darkly comic tale of Californian undertakers;
Buffy the Vampire Slayer, (for the two of you who don't know) Joss Whedon's winning combination of teen angst and gothic horror...
...not to mention The Simpsons and Futurama, The West Wing, Fraser, The Shield, Oz, Law and Order and 24.
On the day that British television starts producing anything one tenth as good as any of the above, I'll maybe consider sniping at the US equivalent but until then a little slack has perhaps been earned?
My main bugbair is that network TV in America has a nasty habit of ruthlessly cancelling shows mid-season before they get a chance to stand on their own two feet. (Pay-cable channel HBO, makers of Six Feet Under and The Sopraons at least give every show a full season before the chop looms.) For every show you've listed that's made it, I can give equally innovative and fresh examples -- Freaks and Geeks and Space Above and Beyond come instantly to mind -- that were treated like manure in the schedules and dumped at the first available opportunity. (Add your example of Futurama to the list as well!) They shows you list do indeed make up a tiny proportion of quality US TV we cream off for terrestrial over here: the rest fills up the daytime schedules of the interminable cable channels I've got.
When it comes to quality long-term drama, we're undoubtedly miles behind America. But in other areas -- doccumentaries, one-off dramas and comedy -- we're way ahead. (Proph has fleshed this out in detail above, so I shan't repeat it all.) It's hard to imagine The Book Group, Teachers or The Office being given a chance in primetime on a terrestrial channel Stateside, and compare Channel 4's recent, embarassingly mawkish Ann Frank import (from network TV) with it's own Longitude, Sword of Honour and Shackleton. (Or compare HBO's Conspiracy with ITV's The Forsythe Saga, of course, but it does show it's not as one sided as you make out.)
As for a drama series to match up with the best of US TV, I'd happily give The State of Play or Spooks a nod. (Yeah I thought I'd hate it as well, but it's consistently surprised me; it's recent handling of Islamic fanaticism blew The West Wing's simplistic effort out the water.) This is somewhere we definitely can learn from America, and can do just as well when we put our mind to it.
(Edited by Byron 24/07/2003 16:48)
Posted: 16:43 Jul 24 2003
I'm trying to remember who described television programming as something to fill the time between adverts.
Advertising pays for television, end of story. Take the BBC out of the equation and it is no different in the UK.
As for cancelling shows before they have had a chance to establish themselves, the UK is far worse than America. Here shows are commissioned for 6 episodes and frequently canned if they don't find an audience instantly.
'Fortysomething' lasted two weeks in ITV prime time before being shunted to a late night slot (this is not to claim it was any good).
Futurama ran for three (or five depending on how you count them) seasons totalling 72 episodes before getting cancelled. Not a bad innings.
I simply don't have the information to argue over documentaries one way or another.
You have both mentioned one-off dramas but industry perception is that these are a dying breed. Screen One and Screen Two have gone, as has the bulk of Film Four's output. I see no evidence that we are leading the world in one off teleplays. Contrast that with the still popular MOTW, often diabolical but occasionally offering something of quality whilst forming part of the system whereby US talent can learn its trade.
And then there is comedy... The Office, The Book Group, Teachers... add Black Books and Spaced if you like... certainly all quality products but no more so than Larry Sanders, Seinfeld, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Scrubs, Malcolm in the Middle, The Simpsons, King of the Hill or South Park.
I haven't seen The State of Play so can't comment, but we will have to agree to disagree about Spooks which is IMO absolutely irredeemable dross.
Advertising pays for television, end of story. Take the BBC out of the equation and it is no different in the UK.
As for cancelling shows before they have had a chance to establish themselves, the UK is far worse than America. Here shows are commissioned for 6 episodes and frequently canned if they don't find an audience instantly.
'Fortysomething' lasted two weeks in ITV prime time before being shunted to a late night slot (this is not to claim it was any good).
Futurama ran for three (or five depending on how you count them) seasons totalling 72 episodes before getting cancelled. Not a bad innings.
I simply don't have the information to argue over documentaries one way or another.
You have both mentioned one-off dramas but industry perception is that these are a dying breed. Screen One and Screen Two have gone, as has the bulk of Film Four's output. I see no evidence that we are leading the world in one off teleplays. Contrast that with the still popular MOTW, often diabolical but occasionally offering something of quality whilst forming part of the system whereby US talent can learn its trade.
And then there is comedy... The Office, The Book Group, Teachers... add Black Books and Spaced if you like... certainly all quality products but no more so than Larry Sanders, Seinfeld, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Scrubs, Malcolm in the Middle, The Simpsons, King of the Hill or South Park.
I haven't seen The State of Play so can't comment, but we will have to agree to disagree about Spooks which is IMO absolutely irredeemable dross.
Posted: 17:08 Jul 24 2003
by Byron
That this got cacelled while formulaic crap like Enterprise gets yet another bail-out is of course to be expected from US TV.
Thats because Star Trek even when its at a low makes a hell of a lot of money for Paramount/Viacom.
Posted: 09:12 Jul 26 2003
by Incandenza
I'm trying to remember who described television programming as something to fill the time between adverts.
Advertising pays for television, end of story. Take the BBC out of the equation and it is no different in the UK.
You just don't get British companies interfering with show's content on grounds of morality to anything like the extent the Americans manage. US TV actually has a watershed at 10pm where in theory networks could show HBO standard stuff, but you wouldn't know it, because they'd be boycotted by advertisers if they tried to take advantage of it.
As for cancelling shows before they have had a chance to establish themselves, the UK is far worse than America. Here shows are commissioned for 6 episodes and frequently canned if they don't find an audience instantly.
'Fortysomething' lasted two weeks in ITV prime time before being shunted to a late night slot (this is not to claim it was any good).
The six-episode format for a first series is a pretty fair idea to my mind. It gives a show enough space to establish its premise and give an idea of its dynamic, but doesn't allow for any flab. ITV are the closest we get to network TV on terrestrial -- all lowest-common-denominator product, laughably marginalised arts coverage, wholly advertiser driven. The BBC (one and two) Channel 4 and, surprisingly, Five usually give their home-grown product a decent chance befor the axe. (Channel 4's The Book Group was a sleeper hit, but to their credit, C4 left it in its prime-time Friday night slot for its first series.)
Futurama ran for three (or five depending on how you count them) seasons totalling 72 episodes before getting cancelled. Not a bad innings.[/b]
But it was cavilirely batted around the schedules (frequentl shown in children's slots!), had its seasons broken up by Fox, and was a hair's breadth from cancellation its entire run. I think it was only Matt Groening's Simpsons prestige kept the show from being axed much sooner.
You have both mentioned [b]one-off dramas but industry perception is that these are a dying breed. Screen One and Screen Two have gone, as has the bulk of Film Four's output. I see no evidence that we are leading the world in one off teleplays. Contrast that with the still popular MOTW, often diabolical but occasionally offering something of quality whilst forming part of the system whereby US talent can learn its trade.[/b]
Teleplays are a prestigious British TV tradition that may be dying out now, but have been every bit as much a fortee of our TV as long-running dramas have been in the states. And as shown by last Saturday's Love Again, we can still put out a top product when we want to. (Love Again would never in a million years have got onto a terrestrial channel Stateside.) Ironically, a large part of the reason why teleplays are dying because we're trying to emulate American practises.
And then there is [b]comedy... The Office, The Book Group, Teachers... add Black Books and Spaced if you like... certainly all quality products but no more so than Larry Sanders, Seinfeld, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Scrubs, Malcolm in the Middle, The Simpsons, King of the Hill or South Park.[/b]
Three of the shows you listed are again on cable TV (Larry Sanders, Curb Your Enthusiasm and South Park), and of the others, I'd only consider The Simpsons and King of the Hill to be as alternative and subversive as the British comedy's listed. (Most of which are now being cannibalised for remakes in the US.) Fare such as Friends, Will and Grace (the bizzare contradiction of asexual gays) and the supposedly risque (but annodyne) The Job sum up most network TV comedy for me.
US TV may produce some real gems, but taken as a whole, I really don't think the British product has to fear comparison.
(Edited by Byron 28/07/2003 17:43)
Posted: 17:40 Jul 28 2003
US tv undoubtedly does prodace some gems, but the thing is that we escape most of the really dire stuff that graces American TV screens (Relic Hunter being an exception, obviously, gods that show is terrible, lol).
Having been across in the US quite a few times, the vast majority of US programming just wouldn't appeal to a UK audience. It seems to me that British veiwers are more discerning, as a whole. The Brits think differently, too- see-through plot devices get immediately savaged over here, for example.
I guess the big problem is that programme makers in the UK generally have more limited budgets, which makes them scared to try something new. I actually liked Ultimate Force, it made a nice chance from comedies and costume dramas, which seem to be the staple for programme makers over here. Was about time we had a Brit show with lots of explosions! But you guys are right, cult TV is treated abominably over here. Take "Ultra Violet" for example. That was a cracking show, but has vanished without trace. The powers that be in UK television seem to think that anything out of the ordinary (vampires, the occult etc) should be solely the premise of childrens telly. Ultra Violet went ridiculously out of it's way to avoid referring to the bad guys as vampires... even though that's what they were! I really liked that show, however, and wish C4 would go back to it- even if it's just to rerun it on E4.
Kel
Having been across in the US quite a few times, the vast majority of US programming just wouldn't appeal to a UK audience. It seems to me that British veiwers are more discerning, as a whole. The Brits think differently, too- see-through plot devices get immediately savaged over here, for example.
I guess the big problem is that programme makers in the UK generally have more limited budgets, which makes them scared to try something new. I actually liked Ultimate Force, it made a nice chance from comedies and costume dramas, which seem to be the staple for programme makers over here. Was about time we had a Brit show with lots of explosions! But you guys are right, cult TV is treated abominably over here. Take "Ultra Violet" for example. That was a cracking show, but has vanished without trace. The powers that be in UK television seem to think that anything out of the ordinary (vampires, the occult etc) should be solely the premise of childrens telly. Ultra Violet went ridiculously out of it's way to avoid referring to the bad guys as vampires... even though that's what they were! I really liked that show, however, and wish C4 would go back to it- even if it's just to rerun it on E4.
Kel
Posted: 09:59 Jan 02 2004 [ 1 2 ]