Could it be because the new series' seriously blow?

I thought that it's been quite good so far..it's definetly changed since S3 and S4 & S5 weren't very good at all. S6 was okay but S7 for me has gotten right back on track and has the potential to be one of the better seasons.

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by Incandenza
Could it be because the new series' seriously blow?

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Even if that is the case, I'm pretty sure people are still watching them. You might expect some discussion of how and why they blow.

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by Incandenza
Could it be because the new series' seriously blow?

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I tend to watch more angel than buffy it seems like buffy still stuck in the angsty rut it should have got out of years ago, I personally still watch but if anything season 6 was really bad. Season 7 seems to have got back on track now as the series reaches its natural end.

S7 is okay.
Still miss Tara.

I kinda lost interest during S5. I still watched it. Even taped it! But you can only do that for so long and after the first few eps of S6 I gave up altogether

Angel is more my scene, hence me writing the ep reviews I do still watch Buffy every week and i'll post if i feel i have something to say. I must admit though, the level of replies to either thread is low, when i remember in the dim and distant past it wouldn't be unusual for an ep post for either series to get close to thirty or more. Even if you thought the episode was good or bad, a point of view in the ep thread is always appreciated

(Edited by Keenangel 18/04/2003 22:00)

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by Incandenza
Could it be because the new series' seriously blow?

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Since I think season 7 has now equalled season 2 at its best, that's not the reason here guv'nor. (Season 2 brought us "Passion" and "Becoming" but it also served up the delights of "Go Fish", "Inca Mummy Girl", "Reptile Boy" ... etc) Problem is I've been watching elsewhere, so don't really have any idea where SkyOne are upto.

I realised the other day I've not watched anything on it for six months now; and to think I actually got cable because of it at one time!

Again, dear Inc, you are misguided in your appraisal of S7. You don't like the show anymore so are not going to give any subsequent season of Buffy a fair critique. As Byron has pointed out, S2 had it's share of turkeys like any other season. And S3 was on equal footing with S2 and surpassed it in some aspects.

Personally, I felt S6 did not suck but was the upswing in the series. Having said that, I've loved all the seasons.

The unfortunate fact is, any serious devotee of any show like Buffy or Angel is probably discussing said shows on a dedicated board where there is a bigger concentration of die hard fans.

And, Keeny, yes, I remember the days when I wrote long, contemperaneous reviews of Angel S1 on BuffyUK back in 2000 while Simpleton would do the same treatment for S4 Buffy. And the threads would be posted in all week. Those were the days....

(Edited by Whistler 19/04/2003 15:58)

Much the same as Byron, I think Season 7 of Buffy rocks, but I'm watching 'elsewhere' (largely because I got fed up of Sky's cuts last season)...so by the time the episodes are on Sky I don't remember them well enough to comment...

And I don't go into the spoiler forum to discuss it because I've managed totally spoiler-free so far and in there it's all to easy to stumble across a mention of future eps I don't want to hear about!

(Edited by White Hart 19/04/2003 16:54)

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by White Hart
Much the same as Byron, I think Season 7 of Buffy rocks, but I'm watching 'elsewhere' (largely because I got fed up of Sky's cuts last season)...so by the time the episodes are on Sky I don't remember them well enough to comment...

And I don't go into the spoiler forum to discuss it because I've managed totally spoiler-free so far and in there it's all to easy to stumble across a mention of future eps I don't want to hear about!

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After the butcher's bill Sky ran up with the last episodes of season 6, I decided it just wasn't worth bothering anymore: that moment with Willow and Warren was ruined by Sky's cack-handed snipping, they managed to rob it of all its impact.

Angel isn't censored ... but as a good 40 per cent of the picture is lost because Sky don't bother to show it in widescreen, it may as well be!

Hey, just throwing out random ideas in the hope something sticks.

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by Whistler
Again, dear Inc, you are misguided in your appraisal of S7. You don't like the show anymore so are not going to give any subsequent season of Buffy a fair critique.

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Can't follow this logic. I don't like it anymore *is* a critique. It was good, it stopped being good... it stopped being good *before* I stopped liking it and before I started saying 'It sucks'.

Anyway, all by the by.

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by Byron
Angel isn't censored ... but as a good 40 per cent of the picture is lost because Sky don't bother to show it in widescreen, it may as well be!

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Is Angel now filmed with the intention of being broadcast in widescreen (i.e., shots composed, action staged etc etc)? I know that the early seasons weren't which made the complaints about the lack of a widescreen master on the DVD's laughable.

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by Incandenza
Is Angel now filmed with the intention of being broadcast in widescreen (i.e., shots composed, action staged etc etc)? I know that the early seasons weren't which made the complaints about the lack of a widescreen master on the DVD's laughable.

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From the beginning of season 3, Angel has been broadcast in widescreen in America, and that's its intended aspect ratio. All shots are composed for 16:9 widescreen, and SkyOne cackhandedly snip off the sides and show the centre of the image - loosing 40 per cent of the picture in the process. Even worse than pan and scam.

This led to the unfortunae example of "Waiting in the Wings", filled with an unusually high number of mauled shots. Among the worst were one that snipped half of Wesley and Gunn's faces away (where they're sitting either side of Fred in the ballet), and another was the neverending corridor ... that wasn't so neverending on Sky, because they cut the entire special effect off!

Angel is available in widescren on DVD from season 2 onwards.

Have you been watching all of Buffy's season 7 BTW?

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by Byron
From the beginning of season 3, Angel has been broadcast in widescreen in America, and that's its intended aspect ratio. All shots are composed for 16:9 widescreen, and SkyOne cackhandedly snip off the sides and show the centre of the image - loosing 40 per cent of the picture in the process. Even worse than pan and scam.

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That is pretty bad. However, I do have some sympathy with Sky if all they are being offered is a widescreen master (on Jules Verne for example we offered 4:3 and 16:9 masters in both PAL and NTSC). Sky One broadcasts in 4:3 and I'd expect the production company to be delivering a usable version of the show based on the domestic requirements for the broadcaster. It may be that the presentation is not the fault of Sky at all and the clipping is because the production company couldn't be bothered to put the time and/or money into generating a usable alternative master.

All this is of course speculation.

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by Byron
Have you been watching all of Buffy's season 7 BTW?

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No. I haven't heard *all* S Club's records either but fortunately I am capable of extrapolation. In any case, if you read carefully you will see that nowhere above did I express my opinion about Season 7.

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by Incandenza
That is pretty bad. However, I do have some sympathy with Sky if all they are being offered is a widescreen master (on Jules Verne for example we offered 4:3 and 16:9 masters in both PAL and NTSC). Sky One broadcasts in 4:3 and I'd expect the production company to be delivering a usable version of the show based on the domestic requirements for the broadcaster. It may be that the presentation is not the fault of Sky at all and the clipping is because the production company couldn't be bothered to put the time and/or money into generating a usable alternative master.

All this is of course speculation.

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Still, they could have letterboxed it, which is how it's broadcast in the US.

Apart from that, I'm not entirely sure what you can do when the whole of the 16:9 frame is being used. I have a video of 'Magnolia' which is in 4:3. There's a scene where there are two actors on opposite sides of the screen and the picture actually switches to letterboxed widescreen for a few seconds, and then back. Really rather jarring.

"Sky have confirmed the plans to move to more Widescreen programming in the April issue of Sky magazine. Page 40 reports the shift on April 2nd of the Box Office channels and the planned partial shift for the Movie channels in June. In addition the magazine confirms that selected Sky One and Sky One Mix programmes will also be in Widescreen." - Taken from DigitalSpy.Co.Uk

A solution to the widescreen problem perhaps??

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by Byron

Problem is I've been watching elsewhere, so don't really have any idea where SkyOne are upto.

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That's the main reason I think folks who watch it don't chat about it anymore, outside of everyone's immediate contacts, everyone's up to different episodes, some folks are still on "box-set time" others are on "SkyOne time" some watch it from american broadcasts and one or two get pre-release studio versions...

it's hard to talk about a show if you're avoiding spoilers and don't know where anyone else is up to in the time line.

It's even harder if you don't keep track of episode titles or numbers.

And, like Inc and DJ, I stopped watching the show for a while, I hated most of S4 and didn't care about what happened in S5 or S6 but I've really really enjoyed S7 so far.

I often think that Joss never really had 7 seasons in him and I think S4-6 let this show. (I'm still of the opinion that S1-3 should have been it.) But S7 in its entirity is perhaps going to be something that really can bring Buffy back to life! (no pun intended)

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by Incandenza
That is pretty bad. However, I do have some sympathy with Sky if all they are being offered is a widescreen master (on Jules Verne for example we offered 4:3 and 16:9 masters in both PAL and NTSC). Sky One broadcasts in 4:3 and I'd expect the production company to be delivering a usable version of the show based on the domestic requirements for the broadcaster. It may be that the presentation is not the fault of Sky at all and the clipping is because the production company couldn't be bothered to put the time and/or money into generating a usable alternative master.

All this is of course speculation.

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Some films of course prepare an "open matte" version for TV (in layman's terms, basically framed so the picture is good in both full-frame and widescreen), but I don't believe Angel is available as such, so the only option SkyOne have, if they don't want to butcher it, is to letterbox it. This is perfectly easy -- in fact it's less troublesome than cutting the sides off -- and presumably not done because they don't want complaints from Joe Four Pack about "the black bars".

So that's as good a solution as they need, and it very much is their fault if they choose to hack the picture instead. Angel's producers have no responsibility whatsoever to prepare a special full-frame version to appease silly widescreen-shy policies; such would be both ridiculously expensive and needlessly time consuming.

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No. I haven't heard *all* S Club's records either but fortunately I am capable of extrapolation. In any case, if you read carefully you will see that nowhere above did I express my opinion about Season 7.

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I did indeed, thus the question.

I believe the word you're looking for is "blind guesswork", not "extrapolation". If you're going to make sweeping statements like "Could it be because the new series' seriously blow?", it doesn't do your credibility a whole lot of good if you've not actually seen any of the newest season!

Especially as season 7 has given Buffy a comeback that vies with John Travolta's career move from Look Who's Talking to Pulp Fiction.

You can no more extrapolate what season 7 will be like from season 6 than you can comment on the Clash's London Calling from listening to Give 'Em Enough Rope.

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by Byron
so the only option SkyOne have, if they don't want to butcher it, is to letterbox it. This is perfectly easy -- in fact it's less troublesome than cutting the sides off -- and presumably not done because they don't want complaints from Joe Four Pack about "the black bars".

Angel's producers have no responsibility whatsoever to prepare a special full-frame version to appease silly widescreen-shy policies; such would be both ridiculously expensive and needlessly time consuming.

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You know widescreen is better, I know widescreen is better, but as you rightly point out, Sky clearly feel their audience will not appreciate black bars on the top and bottom of the screen.

Now, when it comes to what makes entertainment popular (to quote William Goldman) "nobody knows anything". However pandering to the majority is as good a way as any to ensure the biggest audience. To put it another way, nobody ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the british public.

As far as preparing a non-widescreen master is concerned, it really needn't cost very much (certainly not relative to the per episode budget). Joss and Co are of course entirely within their rights to say we're making a widescreen product and that's that but they then create a dilemma for broadcasters.

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by Byron
If you're going to make sweeping statements like "Could it be because the new series' seriously blow?"

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It was more of a sweeping question really and you are perfectly at liberty to answer 'No.'

As for the rest... I fail to see an alternative. Terrestrial channels alone broadcast over one hundred hours of material a day. At best I can spend around 2 or 3 hours watching television (usually far less than that). It may well be that Eastenders will from time to time deliver a moment of dramatic brilliance that would have bettered my life had I experienced it... but the investment of time is not commensurate to the reward. Season 4 was poor by the standards set by previous series, season 5 more so, and season 6 was frequently bad by pretty much any standards you could wish to apply. Trust is hard won and sometimes easily lost but I have more faith that The Sopranos, The West Wing, 24 or The Shield will justify that hour of my time than that Buffy will.

The episodes I have seen from Season 7 have done nothing to convince me that that judgement (guesswork if you like) is incorrect. It probably doesn't help that even if people now concede a lack of quality in previous seasons, at the time they defended the show as vehemently as they are now, an inverted crying of 'Wolf!' if you like.